Hot Stove Targeting: Matt Garza

Garza is an AL East-tested winner in his prime

With the Cubs coming off a 71-win season, there have been rumors that everyone on the team is available.  To the Yankees, nobody on their roster would be more attractive than Matt Garza.  A soon to be 28, AL East tested pitcher with strikeout stuff, Garza is just the type of guy the Yanks are looking for.

Positives

Since becoming a full-time starter in 2008 with Tampa, the strong 6’4″ 215 pound Garza has ranked 28th amongst MLB pitchers in WAR, having made at least 30 starts in each of the last 4 seasons.  Over that period he has compiled a 44-41 record with a 3.72 ERA/ 3.92 FiP / 4.01 xFiP.  He’s had a 7.5 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9 over that time also.

Garza has shown a propensity for missing bats and had a career high 8.95 K/9 & 11.2% Swing/Miss rate in 2011.  Overall, 2011 was his best season in almost every aspect as he also had career highs with a 3.32 /2.95 / 3.19 line and only a 0.64 HR rate despite pitching in HR-friendly Wrigley Field.

Year Tm W L ERA GS IP SO WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 K/9
2007 MIN 5 7 3.69 15 83.0 67 1.542 10.4 0.9 3.5 7.3
2008 TBR 11 9 3.70 30 184.2 128 1.240 8.3 0.9 2.9 6.2
2009 TBR 8 12 3.95 32 203.0 189 1.261 7.8 1.1 3.5 8.4
2010 TBR 15 10 3.91 32 204.2 150 1.251 8.5 1.2 2.8 6.6
2011 CHC 10 10 3.32 31 198.0 197 1.258 8.5 0.6 2.9 9.0
6 Seasons 52 54 3.83 149 923.1 769 1.303 8.6 1.0 3.1 7.5
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/21/2011

Garza’s arsenal consists of a  Plus, 4-Seam Fastball that averages 93.7 MPH and hits up to 96-97 at times. He throws the 4-seamer 38% of the time and also incorporates a 2-seam FB that gets better downward action that he threw 16% of the time in 2011.  Garza has a Plus Slider that is his most effective offering.  It averages 86 MPH and is clearly his Out pitch that he goes to over 40% of the time with 2-strikes on hitters.  He also features a Curveball & Changeup but they are definitely his secondary offerings as they lack the effectiveness of his Fastballs & Slider.

Garza does not show any discernible platoon splits as he’s actually a little more effective vs lefties in his career:

vs LH Hitters  .239/.316/.373/.689

vs RH Hitters .261/.315/.410/.726

Another positive is Garza is proven in the AL East.  In 3 seasons, he never had an ERA over 3.95 or a WHIP over 1.26. And those stats were accumulated during his 24-26 year old seasons which is quite impressive.  His post-season experience only consists of 5 starts but he was a solid 2-1, 3.48 ERA & 1.29 WHIP.  He was MVP of the 2008 AL Championship Series when he threw 2 excellent games against Boston to vault the Rays into the World Series.

Negatives

This season Garza had the highest GB rate of his career at 46.3% but this was a big difference from the 35.8% he produced in Tampa in 2010 where he also had a high 1.23 HR/9.  It seems Garza made some adjustments when pitching in Wrigley by throwing  more 2-seamers and keeping the ball down in the zone to limit HRs and Fly balls in general.  However, it’s possible that 2011 was a bit of an outlier and he his GB% will dip down closer to his career mark of 41%.  As we know, RH fly-ball pitchers aren’t ideal in Yankee Stadium but I think Garza has the stuff to succeed there and if he pitches the way he did in 2011, he really isn’t a fly-ball pitcher anymore.

Fit for the Yanks?

Without a doubt, he would help the Yankees.  He would slide right in as their #2 starter and supply 30 starts/200 ip of solid baseball.  The questions are….is he available and what is the price?

Cubs Perspective 

New president Theo Epstein * GM Jed Hoyer have taken over a Cubs organization with little talent on the Major Lg roster and a depleted Farm system that ranks as one of the worst in MLB.  Matt Garza is one of the team’s few attractive assets along with Carlos Marmol, Starlin Castro and Ryan Dempster.  Epstein has made it clear that everyone is available and although Garza would be a good building block, trading him could also be a tool to re-build the barren system, especially considering he only has 2 more seasons of team control before hitting the open market.  Garza made $5.9M in 2011 and will probably get somewhere close to $8-9M in arbitration this season.

What Would it take to Get Him?

One thing the Cubs do have is money.  So there is no reason they need to trade Garza, but as mentioned it may be the best way to quickly re-stock the system.  The Cubs gave up 5 prospects to get Garza from TB including their 1st and 4th best prospects at the time and 2 useful players that showed promise with the Rays in Sam Fuld & Robinson Chirnos.

I would think the price for the Yanks would be pretty steep considering they’d be getting 2 years of a solid pitcher in his prime.  From a Yankee persepective, it seems Cashman is very reluctant to give up Montero or Banuelos unless he is getting a true #1 starter.  So  it seems any package would start with Dellin Betances along with either Romine or Nunez, a pitcher from the Noesi/Warren/Phelps bunch and a 4th prospect.  Do you guys think that is fair from a Yankees and Cubs perspective?  As a Cubs fan, would you trade Garza or try to build around him?  Let me know what you think?

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About fishjam25

Was a 4-yr Pitcher and Communications Major at Seton Hall University in the 90s. His knowledge & opinion of the game comes from his background as a player and ardent lifetime Yankee fan. However, Fishjam also incorporates sabermetrics and statistical support to form a well-rounded view of the game.

Posted on November 21, 2011, in Hot Stove, Signing & Trade Speculation and tagged . Bookmark the permalink. 139 Comments.

  1. Fishjam…
    If I were a cub GM, I would trade him for Dellin, Nunez, Phelps and Romine
    As Yankee GM I would trade Nunez, Warren, and Cisco, plus one more player at the lower level. Maybe I should have said “as me” not GM!
    Cubs can get away with trading Garza, if they get players with high up side and able to be starters in the very near future…like 2012-13. Four players with high up side is better then having one very good player. After all, they will not be very competitive for a couple years or so, by then Garza would become a free agent.

    • My name is Matt S. and I approve oldyankee’s message.

    • I am a Cubs fan and I would not even consider trading Garza unless Montero, and one of Banuellos or Betances were involved. This is not a trade from a need to dump salary, so the Cubs need to get a pitching prospect who can potentially be as good as Garza, and some other stuff to make up for the risk. Cubs DON’T need a catcher, unless it is someone better than Soto, or the prospects in the system. However Montero would fill a big hole at 1st base for the Cubs.

      I guarantee Epstein does not trade Garza except for PREMIUM prospects.

  2. Great article Fish. Reading it a second time and soaking it in I think it would be a good move but I feel the Cubbies would want a kings ransom and like you said I don’t see Cashman giving up banuelos or Montero.

  3. Excellent work Fish. I don’t think Epstein/Hoyer should ask for anything less than Jesus Montero. As you said, he’s not that expensive right now, and he’s a talented young pitcher in his prime. Man would he be nice to have in pinstripes.

  4. Almost…as Matt said above, Mike D; “My name is Ken and I approve your massage”! Fishjam always does a fine job so, that’s nothing new but, your three lines are a great conclusion to the article.
    CC and Garza as 1-2 along with Nova, Garcia and AJ, with one of Phill, Phelps, Noesi, or Warren around to step up if one of the guys can’t get it going. Oh well, dreaming won’t get Garza, will it?
    I would wish to have AJ out of here, by the end of ST or sooner.
    Thank you for the good work Fishjam, I can always count on you!

  5. As a Cubs fan, I don’t think a package with Betances as the headliner is a starting point. Garza, in his prime at 28 and with 2 years of control left, would command a package that would have to include one of Montero or Banuelos. Then Epstein/Hoyer find 3 other pieces they like and move forward. Yankee prospect Mason Williams would be a guy that I could see included in a Garza package, too.

    First time on your site… nice blog and keep up the good work.

    • Thanks for the feedback Brent.
      I’m sure Cashman and Hoyer/Epstein had the same conversation…….Cubs wanting Montero/Banuelos with Cashman offering a Betances-headlined package. Unless one side blinks it won’t be done.

      What are you hearing from the Chicago beat writers? Are the Cubs loking to deal Garza? And what about Cubbie fans – are you guys in favor of a total strip down and re-build or trying to sign a guy like Garza long term and fill in around him with FAs, etc..

      Seems to me, with the farm system in bad shape and a few bad contracts on the books, a total strip down and rebuild would be best but I know that can be difficult to endure for fans.

      • No, the Cubs aren’t looking to deal Garza, but they would trade him if a team wants to pay a high enough price. If I were the Yankees and you could get Matt Garza (who is still very cheap, another reason why the trade price would be high) to go with potentially Sabathia, and maybe CJ Wilson, that is a devastating rotation and one that can compete with anyone.

        If the Yankees want another year of making the playoffs and watching the WS, they can go with the same crappy pitching staff they had last year.

  6. If I’m the Yanks I would give the Cubs Betances, Phelps, and
    Adams for Garza.

  7. Extremely doubtful that the Yankees get Garza for any of the packages proposed here.. The Cubs willingness to trade Garza has been overstated. I agree with Matt S. here. They’ll listen but it will take big time prospects to pry him loose. The Cubs don’t need Romine or back of the rotation prospects like Phelps. They’ve got plenty of that. They don’t need Nunez. If the Yankees aren’t willing to part with elite talent, it’s not going to happen. As was stated, the Cubs are a big market team, keeping Garza won’t be a problem. If the Yankees or any other team want Garza, they’re going to have to pay a premium for it.

  8. If I’m Epstein, the price starts with Montero, Banuelos, and Phillips for Garza. Montero is unproven at the mlb level, but has upside. Betances was wild in 2011 and didn’t look that hot, so he is a huge question mark. Banuelos might have a career in MLB, but there are no guarantees. Phillips, same story. Nunez made 20 errors in a short 2011 season and his value is very low. If the Yankees say no, Garza stays with the Cubs. Chicago yield the power here, not New York. Cashman meets the price or Garza isn’t a Yankee. The Cubs gave up a wealth of talent to obtain him and anything less in return equals NO trade.

    • Dave…
      The Yankees and Cubs have two of the best GM’s. Any deal will cost the Yankees big time but, your take on the players mentioned is a bit off (my opinion). All of the players you mentioned have very high upside, why would Epstein want players other then high upside guys?
      Garza would be a nice fit with the Yankees but, I wouldn’t give up the farm for him.
      I’d like to be a fly on the wall when those two guys get together and try making a trade happen, like this one.
      I think, we will be hearing from some Cub fans as long as this deal has legs, don’t you?

    • None of those players are a fit for us.

  9. As a Cubs fan with a great deal of familiarity with their farm system, I can guarantee you the Cubs wouldn’t have any interest in either Romine or Nunez. The Cubs already have a good major league catcher, and they have two prospects in Welington Castillo and Steve Clevenger that are probably every bit as good, if not better than Romine. And they’ve got this Starlin Castro guy–not sure if you’ve heard of him– so Nunez wouldn’t be much use to the Cubs.

    • Hi jack. Nunez just doesn’t play SS though. He can play 3B and 2B as well.

    • Jack -
      Thanks for the comment and you certainly have more knowledge of the Chicago prospects than I. I mentioned Nunez or Romine because they are NY’s closest to MLB-ready position prospects other than Montero. Both are highly regarded around the lg and most teams ask about them in potential deals.

      Romine was included with the thought that Soto would also be dealt or let go when a FA in 2 yrs. Did not realize that Castillo was as good as he was and I’ve never heard of Clevenger or seen him in mosttop 20 lists for the Cubs.

      Castro is without a doubt the building block for your organization so Nunez would obviously not bump him. However, Nunez’ best attributes are his speed, arm and offensive potential. IMO, his best position is 2B although he would also be a potential 3B or OF.

      With your knowledge of their system, what would be an attractive package from NY or do you advocate keeping Garza and signing him long-term?

  10. Well, if you look at his offensive numbers, it’s pretty clear Nunez isn’t a permanent solution at 3B. Really, he’s only a valuable player if he plays a good defensive SS, which is irrelevant in this case because have a pretty good player at shortstop already.

  11. I would get garza and maybe another pitcher a lhp pitcher in bullpen so yanees can get one left hander in pen. Also we should trade romine, phelps and maybe betances for him and the other ptiher

    • Not a chance, not even close. We have a good relatively young catcher and an allstar caliber prospect with a rifle arm and a good hitter with excellent power, so we don’t need a catcher. We have no need of Phelps either. Betances would be OK but Nova would be a better fit, but third baseman with power, young lefty starter like Garza, or a power/speed corner outfielder are our needs.

      • You never want to be too sure of one catching prospect, though. Look at the Rangers a couple of seasons ago: they had Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Taylor Teagarden, Max Ramirez and Gerald Laird and look at what has become of that quartet.

  12. As a Cubs fan, I know that the Yankees are are not a good fit for us. We have two very good catchers in Soto and Castillo who is better than Montero; we would have no use for him. We wouldn’t want Banuelas as Wrigley is not a good park for soft-tossing lefties. We want corner outfielders with power and a younger Garza who is left-handed. We would trade Garza for the right package but the Yankees have none of the parts we’re looking for.

    • That’s a bold statement considering how good the Yankees farm system is.

    • Kerry, I think you underestimate Montero & Banuelos.

      Montero is ranked by nearly every site/publication as one of the top hitting prospects in the game, if not the best. His catching skills are debated so most teams consider him a 1B since he’s projected to be a middle of the order masher.

      And Banuelos is not a soft-tossing lefty. He has plus velocity, sitting at 92-93 and topping at 95 with a plus change and solid curveball. The only thing holding the 20 year old from MLB is he needs innings to improve his command. His stuff is unquestioned. He is #13 on MLB’s Top 50 prospects.

      And Betances who everyone is dismissing was ranked #22 in all of baseball and would instantly be Chicago’s top pitching prospect. He’s got Garza’s stuff @ 23 yrs old but needs more polish to refine his 6’8″ delivery.

      • I know what he’s rated, but I have also seen him “catch” LoL He may become a middle of the order force as you and experts claim, but he hasn’t even done anything close to that against minor league pitching. We don’t need a catcher. When I saw Banuelas pitching, he was throwing in the high eighties, maybe low 90;s once in awhile. He was throwing a lot fo screwballs and they were calling him a young Fernando Valenzuela.

        • Um, if the Cubs and Yankees farm systems combined, Montero would be the top prospect.

          but he hasn’t even done anything close to that against minor league pitching

          You think when experts talk about a player’s ceiling, they don’t take stuff like that into consideration? The guy is 21 years old; Yankee fans, let’s panic because he hasn’t reached his ceiling yet!

        • How can you say Montero hasn’t done anything in the minors to prove he’s a middle o the order hitter? Compare his minor lg numbers to theguys he’s compared to…..Miquel Cabrera, Manny Ramirez, etc. he’s right in line for his age.

          He has a career .308/.366/.501/.867 line as a Catcher ALWAYS playing at levels above his age level and often in pitcher’s leagues. These aren’t Pacific Coast Lg numbers. He’s still only 21 and although its a terribly small sample, he hit .328/.406/.590 in his 70 MLB PA’s. Once he doesn’t have to worry about catching every day he is going to mash.

          You can rag on Montero’s defense at Catcher but I haven’t seen ANYONE question his stick.

  13. Steve Clevenger doesn’t show up on too many top prospect lists because he just isn’t that toolsy of a player. But he can hit, and a left-handed hitting catcher is a nice commodity to have. He and Castillo figure to have the Cubs set at catcher for awhile.

    Barney might not be the long-term answer at 2B, but that doesn’t mean Nunez is this super attractive piece when we’re talking about Matt Garza. Maybe he becomes a decent player someday, but he’d be a very small part of this kind of potential deal.

    To answer your question– I’m all for the Cubs signing Garza long term. He’s proven himself to be an extremely durable pitcher throughout his career, and I think the uptick in performance we saw this year shows what he’s capable of doing in the NL. He’d definitely be worth a lot in a trade, but I think he’s more valuable to the Cubs in their rotation for the next 4-5 years.

    • Jack,

      I was looking at the Baseball Prospectus info on the Cubs farm system, and it looks as if they lack in pitching. They only have 2 pitchers in their top 10: McNutt and Maples. If, there was a trade; the Yankees could provide the Cubs some additional pitching.

      What do you think?

  14. Epstein has made the caveat that any trade must help us for the future but not hurt us in 2012, which is pretty restrictive. Essentially it means we are looking for major league ready players like Nova. I don’t know your farm system as a whole but i do know your top 10 prospects by BA or MLB which we all know is a bit of a joke. We could use a major league ready third baseman, corner outfielder with speed/power or a left-handed starting pitcher. We are pretty deep everywhere else.

    • Yanks definitely don’t have any MLB ready OF prospects. I suppose Gardner could be involved but I don’t think the yanks are looking to move him.

      Yanks strength is Pitching and Catching. They have some excellent OF prospects at the lower levels in Mason Williams, Slade Heathcott & Dante Bichette, Jr but I didn’t mention them because I’d think Epstein would look for upper level-MLB ready talent to headline the deal.

      I think the Yanks are loking to deal from their strengths, Pitching & catching to see what that will bring them. I keep coming back to John Danks as a good fit.

    • The Yankees farm system is as every bit of a joke as the 1998 Yankees were.

  15. Personally I dont trade Warren or Phelps. If Kontos can make the jump i would trade Noesi. Nunez even though he can hit I wiould trade. Culver is making progress in therir system and could be ready in a few years

  16. the cubs fans who posted are idiots, Castillo is not even in Montero’s universe as a prospect
    and Clevenger is 26 and hasnt even made it to the cubs yet

    Castro is a below average defender at shortstop,though he is young and should improve
    Garza is a solid pitcher, but is not worth either Montero or Banuelos…..let us not forget he was traded by the Twins for being uncoachable,and then traded by the rays, so there is a bit of an attitude question as well.

    but i had to clarify theobvious overstaing of Castillo and Clevenger,

    • As I said before, some of these scouting pubs like BA are a joke. Castillo is the Cubs 4th or 6th prospect on some more professional scouting lists. He was slowed by injuries this year, but hit .727 last st and was 15 hr,35 rbis in limited action this year. Castro led the NL with 203 hits, hit over .300. had 12 home runs and 66 rbi’s with 26 stolen bases as a twentyone year old and dramatically improved his defense in the second half. Clevenger is a backup catcher type and he was converted which is why he was still in 2A this year. He’s a good defender, good hitter, Zero power. Actually you didn’t clarify anything. Castillo is a good defensive converted catcher with a very strong arm, a good hitter with very good power.

    • This is not true. Clevenger just converted to catcher 2 years ago. That is why he is in the minors. He is a solid hitter and draws walks. Not much power, Decent defensively too.

      No, Castillo is not in Montero’s ball park as a prospect, but as a catching prospect, Castillo is better. No one that I have read (and I have read them all) thinks Montero is a catcher. He is a first baseman or a DH, and that GREATLY decreases his value.

      Cub aren’t going to trade a #2 starter for back end of the rotation prospects PERIOD. It will be elite prospects, or you can try running Montero to the mound every 5th day.

    • Attitude question…..thats total BS. You never heard any of that from the Cubs this year. Actually just the opposite, he is the consumate teammate. First one up cheering for the rest of his team.

      And he showed himself quite coachable this year, going heavily to his offspeed pitches to become more of a ground ball pitcher.

      He was traded by the Rays for one reason and one reason only. MONEY. The Rays have a ton of good young pitchers and have to save money wherever they can and they got back a very good prospect in Lee, a prospect who looked very good at the time in Archer, and a couple of other potentially useful pieces.

  17. kerry said:

    “but i do know your top 10 prospects by BA or MLB which we all know is a bit of a joke. We could use a major league ready third baseman, corner outfielder with speed/power or a left-handed starting pitcher. We are pretty deep everywhere else.”

    this coming from a fan who roots for one of the worst farm systems in baseball accorning to JohnManuel of minor league ball and Kevin Goldstein od Baseball America

    Kerry, most of us are New Yorkers and can read and research, do not insult us with your ill informed wishful thinkig. the yankees are currently ranked by most scouting services as the 5th to 7th best organizations right now in minor league talemt, the cubs are no better than 25th in any reputable source

    • agreed i think they yankees have a lot to offer the Cubs with how good their system. But what i’m seeing is their is OF.

      Like fish pointed out our minor guys are a couple years off and I in no way want to get rid of Gardner.

    • Thank you Bill – I think you recapped what all of us Yankee fans are thinking right now.

    • If you only read two reports; that’s ten less than I researched and read. Even BA, which really doesn’t thoroughly research all prospects but focuses on the hyped ones had us rated 6th less about 9 months ago before the Garza trade, but they dropped us to 16th after the trade. The last time I looked they had us listed about the same. Irrespective, everything I said is true; we do have a strong system especially in center field where we are very deep. We are also strong in middle infielders, especially shortstops. We have Castillo and Clevenger but that’s about it for catchers. We have a lot of good right-handed starting pitchers , but few lefties. We have a lot of strong relievers left and right. We have a few emerging first baseman and our #2 pick this year, a young lefty with tremendous power. We are weak in corner infielders and corner outfielders, but a former #1 pick at third is improving and hit the major league roster. We have no genuine lefty starting prospects. That’s a short summary, but everything is true and verifiable.

    • Actually, Baseball America just released the Cubs top 10, and said Cubs would be solidly in the middle of the pack.

      And honestly, that doesn’t matter. We are not talking about Cubs prospects. We are talking about a Cubs #2 pitcher and Yankees prospects.

  18. castillo is already entering his age 25 season aand has absolutely no plate disciplinem and hes 3 years older than Montero, how anyone could call him better than Romine or Montero is subject to a mental evaluation

    • I wouldn’t go that far with the mental evaluation……. but Yes Montero was rated as the number #3 to #5 top prospect coming into this season so i don’t see how Castillo could be compared to him.

    • Bill you seem to be a passionate yankee fan. I hope you bookmark our blog to come back often and comment on our future articles or even articles in the past.

    • I said Castillo is a better catcher than Montero and he is. Montero is a DH. Romine is a fine defensive catcher, but I didn’t comment on him. He’s the one who should be your regular catcher for the future. Castillo was converted to catching so it has taken longer for him to develop. He also has been plagued by nagging injuries the last year or so which also has slowed his development. But at least, unlike Montero, he can catch.

    • You are pulling comments out of your butt. Castillo walked 20 times in 247 AA plate appearances. With a .286 batting average, he posted a .351 OBP. That is not bad. Especially when coupled with a .524 slugging percentage.

      And Castillo is a very good defensive catcher, but need work on calling games (according to Hoyer).

  19. You’ll all rue the day you let Nunez get away. He’s Robinson Cano 5 years ago. Hopefully Cashman knows this as well and holds on to him. Jeter is going to get old eventually.

    • I don’t get how you know Nunez will play like Robinson Cano in 5 years.

    • Bob -
      I like Nunez. Not as much as you but I think he could be a solid 2B, SS or even an OF in the near future if given every day ABs. But I see his potential as a guy who hits around .270-.285 with 10-15 HRs and 35-40 SBs.

      Those would be great numbers for a middle infielder but I think the yanks need pitching more right now and you have to give up something good to get something good.

  20. I think the Yankees should trade Tex, Montero and prospect for Garza and sign Pujols.

  21. The Yankees B&B youngsters can be just as good as Garza and then people want the Yanks to throw in Nunez and Montero… This trade isn’t happened at those prices.. The Yanks are better off playing Montero and pitching the kids.. The Yanks won 95 games last year with suspect pitching.. I’ll take a chance Huges comes back strong to give the Yanks a strong threesome with CC and Nova, then AJ and the fatman..

    • C.C. and Nova i have faith in….the rest of the starters i don’t.

      You can’t think what we got from Garcia and Colon could happen again?

      as of now only Garcia is coming back.

    • It isn’t unrealistic that the Yankees are done as far as starting pitching goes with Garcia signing. They might try what you said. However, I don’t think Cashman will settle for just Garcia.

  22. The Yanks catcher in a few years is likely Gary Sanchez..Sanchez supposedly has the glove and the bat – Montero-Romaine without the big time power.. Montero will DH, catch some. With R Martin, a young player, also, the Yanks are set at catcher. There’s young trade bait – Romaine and Sanchez.

    • yeah of the group Sanchez is the best pure catcher with the bat and glove. He is basically Romine (glove) + Montero (bat).

      like mentioned on this site before it would be nice to see the Yankees try to have Montero try to get his feet wet in Right field.

  23. I think; I am glad we aren’t the GM of the Yankees. Some of us would trade away our future, some wouldn’t give up much at all. Both of those extremes is not good for either team now is it?
    I have come to the conclusion, nothing will get done on Garza being traded to the Yankees. Being honest about it, I pass on Garza…the cost will be to high in people and money.
    Sorry, no deal at all…Garza would be a very welcome addition to the club but, I would pass.
    The Yankees need replacements for Jeter, Mo, A-Rod and Tex in the near future Mo and Jeter for 2012-13 at the latest

    • replacement for Tex? really?? not just yet? but if you had to you could plug Montero at 1B.

      Tex just had a low average last year. He did put up some high totals for HR and RBI’s. I’m not on the line of being worried about him yet.

      • I am not ready to dump him at all, just putting the older (32 and over) guys up for our fans to keep in mind. The team will need to replace some as soon as they quit resigning a player for who he is and not his production.

  24. Garza hasn’t lit up the pitcher’s mound. He’s shown potential to be a 2 or 3 not the consistency. I can see giving up that much talent for Hernandez or Verlander maybe Johnson, not for Garza. I doubt Caashman sees it differently

  25. The Yanks have some prospects on the farm. Aside from pitchers, there’s Culver and others – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cito_Culver#Cito_Culver- No one replaces Jeter (he’s Jeter). Tex can be replaced. Power hitting first-basemen are plentiful; Tex’s got the glove though. Have faith inthe young kids

    • Cito has a high ceiling. I look forward to seeing his and Slade’s growth through the minors.

    • I think many fans said the same thing about Babe Ruth as you just did about Jeter. The Yankees are about winning, The babe went his way, now it is another icons time to go about his life.

  26. Whats up fellas. It seems as though I have missed some good debate. From my observations a lot of Cubs fans seem to be taking the easy way out and saying oh its the Yankees their farm system sucks. When the reality the Yankees are a top 10 farm system in all major publications and some a top 5. I do agree the Yankees and Cubs aren’t a great match but that does not mean you can rip guys like Monetro, Romine, Nunez, Banuelos, and Betances. Montero and Banuelos are better than anybody in the Cubs system. I would say Betances is better than everyone except for Brett Jackson and maybe Trey McNutt but its close there.

  27. kerry, youre very wrong about Castillo, Tim Wilken, who i believe was the head of your scouting department, before Epstein brought in his own people was on record as saying that unless castillo drastically improved his plate discipline he wouldnt advance as a prospect.

    in the minors castillo struck out nearly 4 times for every base on balls, in limited time with the cubs that went up to 11:1 as pitchers exposed his weakness for offspeed pitches, he does have a howitzer for an arm but his footwork and mobility have limited his ability to block pitches.

    They like his coachability but he still will be 25, its not like he is 21 or 22 like Romine or Montero Romine already is a major league catcher defensively and can handle a pitching staff, Whereas castillo by wilkens own admission is a work in progress

    the only reason Castillo made your to ten is because you have such a weak system, which is one major reason why compensation for epstein is so hard to determine. Red Sox scouts say yjat Brett Jackson , your top prospect would only barely crack the Sox top 10 list, and both Keith law and John Manuel rate Castillo as merely your 20th best prospect

    in fact only one cubs prospect was even in the top 100 and that was mcnutt. at #46, by comparison the yankees had 5,even more impressive the Kc royals had 6.. but that should tell you how low the cubs prospects are viewed in comparison to other clubs…even the pirates had 2 in the top 100

  28. Cubs gave up the 27th and 97th top prospects with Lee and Archer and contributors with Fuld and Chirinos.

    That was before Garza had a break out year. I think The Cubs will want 2 top 50 prospects at least.

    • Mitchener -

      You make a good point. Let’s compare the Cubs-Rays deal to come up with what is fair value.

      Cubs gave up 27th & 97th prospects plus Lee, Fuld & Chirnos for 3 seasons of Garza.

      Yanks would be getting Garza for only 2 years and Garza didn’t have a breakout yr in 2011. His numbers were slightly better but that can be expected from switching from AL East to the NL. Also Garza was a bargain @ $5.9M this yr but he’ll be around $9M in 12′.

      Archer was the headliner & Betances is rated higher than him on most lists so they are very comparable. Betances could definitely headline this deal.

      Hak-Ju Lee is a nice prospect, but he’s barely played above A ball and he’s a no power, good average, great speed, questionable defense. You could say Eduardo Nunez is the same player just 3 yrs older and MLB-ready. Or you could use someone like Gary Sanchez, Slade Heathcott or Mason Williams but I get the idea Epstein wants MLB ready prospects.

      Brandon Guyer is a guy who hit real well in AAA but he’s about to turn 26 and hasn’t cracked the Bigs. Sam Fuld is 30 and a nice 4th OF, no hit but good speed & D and Robinson Chrinos is a 27 yr old backup Catcher type.

      Those 3 guys are serviceable players but the Yanks could offer plenty of guys like that. Brandon Laird is similar to Guyer but plays a great 3B. Cervelli is similar to Chirinos but 2 yrs younger with 3 yrs MLB experience. But I think a solid young pitcher like Phelps, Warren or DJ Mitchell would be a good fit for the back end of Chicago’s rotation.

      In any event, the headliners were Archer & Lee and the Yanks could counter that with Betances & either Nunez, Sanchez, Slade or Mason W. The rest would be C-prospects or MLB backups that could be filled in.

  29. mitchener wrote:

    “Cubs gave up the 27th and 97th top prospects with Lee and Archer and contributors with Fuld and Chirinos.

    That was before Garza had a break out year. I think The Cubs will want 2 top 50 prospects at least.”

    10 and 10 last year for a career under 500 pitcher? who has pitched for teams that went a combined 523- 447, thats hardly a breakout year in my book…. just because Hendry overpaid for a pitcher with some promise, doesnt mean the Yankees should, the fact is that Garza was traded because he was considered uncoachable in both stops in his career.

    he’s marvelously gifted but he thinks he knows more than his coaches and manager. that may be what the cubs need to justify a trade of Garza, but its not a good reason for the Yankees to overpay. Garza has pitched for some great teams 4 of his teams have won 95+ games, the fact that hes still under 500 should tell you something

  30. As a Cub fan, I can see the value in dealing Garza now, but I can’t see the Yanks paying the price necessary to pry him away. We can all spout about Montero, but the Yanks won’t deal him (and they probably shouldn’t) and it would likely take a “can’t miss” guy to make this happen. If the Cubs were to offer Soto with Garza, that would possibly make this more palatable to NY…but I still can’t see it happening.

  31. Bill. If you look at his games last year, you will see that Garza left more than half a dozen games with a lead. Look at quality starts, this guy dominated but the woeful cub offense torpedoed him game after game.

  32. Wow, Mike and Matt…
    Fishjam hit a nerve with the Cubs fans and the Yankee fans. It seems like the Cubs want everything they can get…which is the way it should be!
    The Yankee fans want to give up something but, not the hot, hot, hot players that the Cubs want.
    This was a great posting by everyone involved, very good, Fans on both sides had class and restraint! 8)

  33. Garza would be a great yankee.He’s got the right make up for that team, because he has… Character. , something the yanks are lacking. If cash thinks he’s only a pitcher or two away, were in for another short run in the playoffs. A sparkplug is needed, big time. It’s unbelieveable he cant see that.

    • Good evening to you Jerpozz…
      There have been many fans thinking Cashman is not a good GM, may haps, you are one of them.
      He and his team of people, do nothing else all year then to think up different ways to improve the team. They evaluate players every day. Why do you think he pulls off a pick-up that surprises the rest of baseball and helps the Yankees every (almost) year?
      We as fans, may underestimate Cashman but, believe me, the rest of the GMs don’t.
      Of course, this is my opinion…yours is different, I can live with that! 8)

  34. Alright, I think I have a good idea that helps the Cubs and Yankees. How about a Garza and Marshall for Montero, Bentences, Romine, and Nunez? Its just a wild idea, since Marshall is a great lefty-reliever and is cheap that can help the Yanks a ton.

  35. First off, you are going to.have to pay a lot considering the lack of starting pitching in the free agent class and trade market coupled with the fact that there is no overlying reason for the Cubs to have to trade him. So therefore I would say Banuelos, Betances, Romine and Mason Williams. Face facts, the Cubs may not have a great farm system, but neither do the Yankees.

  36. Cubs farm system has depth-a number of players who are considered MLB-caliber-but lacks impact players besides Brett Jackson, who likely will make the team sometime in 2012. The ankees have a good farm system, but not on the order of A KC or a Tampa Bay, maybe close to where Toronto is. Yankees have less depth, but more potential impact players. Overall, If Im the Cubs Id only trade Garza for a Strong starting prospect, a middle of the order bat that plays a corner position, and an impact corner outfielder. The Yankees dont have any impact outfiled bats in the high minors.

  37. NorthJersey: Why woould you give up so mucvh for Garza unless you are a Cubs’ fan? Is he Verlander? Hernandez? Even Lee or Halliday? He’s not Johnson or the two big guys on the Red Sox.Yankees need to let Garza go for the price you are talking.

  38. Some of you guys need to get a clue. The Cubs are not trying to dump guys.

    Marshall has been better over the last 3 years than Mike Adams was for the Padres. Look what they got for him. 2 very solid starting pitching prospects. I don’t see the Cubs wanting Romine at all. And Marshall is not a throw in player. Especially at 2 million a year.

    Marshall for Betances and Nunez is a reasonable deal. Banuellos and Montero for Garza is a reasonable deal. I know Yankee fans don’t want to give up their best prospects, but that is tough. You are not going to get the Cubs top players by offering middle tier prospects. Especially not with guys like Epstein and Hoyer running the show.

    You have to pay to play.

    • Dale – I totally agree Marshall would never be part of this deal. The yanks pen is loaded and Cashman is too smart to give big prospects for a middle reliever.

      But you saying Montero & Banuelos for Garza is way too much. Garza’s a great pitcher but he’s not an elite starter. That is a package that would bring back Josh Johnson

      The Cubs gave up a top 30 pitching prospect and a average hitting, fast SS with no power ranked #97 and 3 filler guys for Garza.

      Montero is top 10 in everyone’s list and Banuelos is anywhere from #12-20th. You aren’t sniffing both of those guys for 2 yrs of Garza when you gave up nothing near that for 3 yrs of Garza.

      Betances is a top 30 ranked pitcher the same or better than Archer so he would be reasonable to headline the deal.

      Nunez, Romine, Gary Sanchez or Mason Williams are all prospects better or the same level as Jak-Hu Lee.

      The Guyer, Fuld, Chirinos were just C-level filler the Yanks could easily match.

      • Easy to say that, but I don’t see any team offering them a #1 starter for those guys. If those guys would bring a #1, why haven’t they already traded them. Neither Banuellos or Montero is a sure thing, though I think Montero’s bat is pretty safe.

        You need to set your sights lower than Garza if that is all you are willing to give up, or you will have to go after a pitcher on a financially strapped team.

        • “If those guys would bring a #1, why haven’t they already traded them.”

          Well there hasn’t exactly been a surplus of #1s on the market since Cliff Lee in ’10.

          “Neither Banuellos or Montero is a sure thing”

          If you’re saying, that, then you could just as easily say that no prospect is a sure thing.

  39. However, Dale, the Cubs are in complete rebuilding mode. Epstein/Hoyer are smart enough to know if they want to bring in new young talent, they can’t go around with prices like what you said: Banuelos and Montero for Garza. Cashman would never, ever, ever consider a deal like that. The Cubs are going to have to bring in new players somehow, but they’re never going to advance their farm system with monumental asking prices like what you said for Garza.

    • Garza and Marshall are both young enough to contribute to the club for 5 or 6 more years. No sense to trade them for players who will never amount to anything. Just not a smart move. Cubs need impact players. They won’t trade two of the ones they have for borderline prospects. Period.

      • No question – that makes sense.

        I’m just saying that I highly doubt any team would give a package as strong as Montero and Banuelos for Garza. He’s just not an elite pitcher.

  40. By the way the Yankees do need a lefty in their bullpen, and he’s a set-up man not a middle reliever. Now he could be a part of this deal because Marshall is a free-agent at the end of the season, therefore it would make sense to get the most value you can back for him if you plan on not resigning him. A Romine and Bentences would be a fair deal for Marshall and for Garza a Montero and Nunez deal isn’t so far fetched. Yankee fans need to realize that their precious prospects are only prospects and haven’t proven themselves at the major league level. Plus I’ve watched Garza pitch and his best games seemed to come against the better teams in the league, he’s a good big game pitcher and for a team like the Yankees, who are in the playoffs almost every year, thats a hot commadity.

  41. Alright I’m going to put out a proposal out there for everyone. If the cubs decide to trade garza they have to be in full rebuild mode and they would have to get several impact pieces in return. How about garza, Marshall, and possibly soto for banuelos, bentacenues, montero and Nunez. People are acting like these prospects are already sure things. While the yanks have a good farm none of these prospects have guaranteed successful MLB careers. Garza is a great 1 a ill call it or a solid # 2 with some upside. He’s only 28 and enItering his prime so it’ll cost the Yankees. This helps the Yankees now and for the foreseeable future and the cubs help jump start their rebuilding effort mode.

    • That is a more realistic proposal in my view. Yankees give up a lot better, getting good talent that is still 2 years away from free agency. Cubs get several good prospects.

    • Yanks would never give up their top 3 prospects, all of which are top 25 in all of baseball PLUS an MLB-ready starting middle IF in Nunez for anything short of a Felix Hernandez type pitcher.That is a Herschel Walker type haul!

      Marshall is an excellent reliever but the Yanks have no need for more RPs. They have Mariano, David Robertson, Rafael Soriano, Joba, Phil Hughes, Boone Logan, Cory Wade and several guys ready to step up in Kontos, Noesi and if they don’t make the rotation…Phelps, Warren & DJ Williams. The only interest for the yanks is a LOOGY….someone to pitch to 1 lefty hitter per game. A Randy Choate-type LHP.

      There is also no interest in Soto although he’s a solid Catcher. We are very pleased with Russell Martin and we have Montero to catch part-time along with Cervelli and Romine who is MLB-ready defensively. Gary Sanchez & JR Murphyare also strong Catching prospects.

      Only player of interest is Garza. Make a list of what the Cubs gave up for Garza and try to match up a player from the Yanks. That is the true value of Garza at best considering the Cubs traded for 3 yrs of him and the Yanks would be getting 2 yrs.

  42. I will start by stating I am a long-time die-hard Cubs fan. Living in San Diego I have had the opportunity to watch/listen to Jed Hoyer and found myself routinely wishing he were the GM of the Cubs. I was ecstatic to learn he was going over to the Cubs.

    Having said that – I am in full support of a total strip down rebuilding of this team. That does not mean we trade guys just to trade guys but if it will help us to win a World Series in 3 years then they need to consider it. Like other posters have stated, there is no reason to trade Garza unless the trade makes the team better for the long-term.

    I don’t think there is any question the Yankees have a far superior farm system than the Cubs. The Yankees have many prospects I like but to move Garza I would have to have Montero or Banuelos coming back – preferably Montero. If Montero comes to Chicago they should just put him at 1B and match him mash for the next decade. I am also high on Nunez. I too believe he could be Robinson Canoesque. Perhaps not as much power but definitely a nice offensive player with versatility for 2B or 3B. I could see him playing 3B for the Cubs opening day. Another Yankee prospect I am high on is Gary Sanchez. I understand the Cubs are not currently in need of a C but by the time Sanchez is ready Soto will be about on his way out of town. I could see a Montero & Nunez for Garza trade as reasonable for both sides. But I’d love to expand a deal to include Marshall from the Cubs and Sanchez from the Yanks. If the Cubs could somehow also get a low-level OF prospect thrown in all the better. If Hughes is on the outs for the Yankees the Cubs should try to include him in the deal.

    I completely understand the position that Montero & Nunez would be too much for Garza. To that I say fine. The Cubs can also talk to other AL East teams. Boston is seeking another SP and have some quality prospects to deal. Same for Toronto. I’m not sure if Garza projects well for the stadium in Arlington but Texas has a plethora of quality talent and are in the market for a SP.

    I have full trust in the new Cub regime to make quality changes to the entire team system (ML and minors). I hope they do explore trades for Garza and others to place the team in a better position to win in 2014 and beyond.

    • Kismet – You sound like a knowledgable guy of both systems.

      The Yanks have previously offered Montero in packages for Halladay & Cliff Lee. The Cliff Lee deal fell through when Seattle demanded Montero AND Nunez. I really think fans underestimate th value of Nunez. He is always asked for in deals with NY and Cashman always refuses. How many MLB middle infielders can hit .275-.285 with 10-15 HRs and 35-45 SBs?

      I don’t think Cashman trades Montero for anything but a true #1 Pitcher and Garza isn’t that. I like Garza a lot but he’s at best a solid #2.

      Perhaps Betances, Gary Sanchez & Eduardo Nunez?

      That would be more than I think the Yanks would give up and I probably would have to think long and hard about it, but what is your opinion?

      It seems Cubs fans don’t like Betances. What is it about Betances you don’t like considering he is a consensus Top 30 Prospect?

      • I agree Garza is not a #1. Certainly not in the same class as Halladay or Lee. I also agree Nunez seems to be undervalued in prospect circles. Not sure I believe the SB projections but still see significant value in the guy. I can’t see the Yankees holding on to him for two more years waiting for Jeter to leave the scene.

        A deal of Betances, Sanchez and Nunez for Garza sure gets my attention. I think the issue with Betances is most see him as a future RP rather than a ML SP.

        • Kismet – I’ve heardthose concerns over Betances. Very high ceiling but high volatility also. This is a big yr for him at AAA. He has to prove he can repeat his delivery and show better command.

          Nunez could swipe that many. He swiped 22 in 338 PAs last yr so over 600 PAs that is 40 SBs. Watching him all yr he’s every bit as fast as Brett Gardner.

          Watching SD, what do you think of Headley & Cory Luebke? Would SD think of dealing them?

          • I think they’d deal Headley for the right offer. Lots of teams need a 3B and the perception is Headley would be a nice player outside of Petco. Of course, Bynes knows that’s they perception and will seek the returning talent to reflect that. I would expect Luebke to stay. He’ll be 27 to start the 2012 season and he is cheap. Lots of Ks. My guess is he would cost more in talent than Headley.

            Historically, Nunez has not been a high-average hitter. there was really only the one season he had over .300. The past three years have seen his SB totals at 19, 28 and 22 in 497, 514 and 309 AB respectively. He’s also already 24 yo so the time for them to move him appears to be this winter. He’s a talented guy, to be sure, but he has yet to put it all together. He has never shown much power either so we really cannot expect that to come.

  43. people are talking like Garza is a number 1hes not, hes a number 3, on tampa he would be a number 3 as he was behind Price and Sheilds, he is only a number one on the Cubs because the Cubs were so bad. Ray the reason the cubs won only 71 games was because Garza couldnt finish out those games. by the way with Marshall, Wood and Marmol, one would think the cubs pen is solid enough

    im familiar with Garza because Ronny Gardenhire is a personal friend, and i know what he tells me, the truth is Garza for all his talent thinks he knows all he needs to know about pitching, as a cubs fan think Zambrano, pitchers like that wear out their welcome eventually everywhere they go

    Sean Marshall however is the real deal, of the two, hes the real prize id be after as a yankee fan, Garza is a good solid pitcher dont get me wrong, but Im just not one to overpay for Hendrys mistakes. personally i wouldnt have traded Archer for Garza alone, since Tampa was eager to move Garza because Maddon didnt want Matt’s attitude infecting all their young pitching

    Mark my words when the Cubs trade him, thats when youll start hearing about his attitude issues. Epstein is too smart to hurt his trade value to let it out now, but teams are aware of it.its why he was traded twice. Garza is the poster child for million dollar arm with a ten cent head….if he ever grows up he could win 20 consistently, but his own attitude holds him back, just like Zambrano

    • Let’s not forget what came back to the Twins for Garza – the former No. 1 overall pick Delmon Young. True, Young has not panned out as a lot of experts expected but he was still a very good get for a SP and mediocre SS (Bartlett). In fact, it was a six-for-six trade with the primaries being Garza and Young. The return for the Rays in last year’s trade was universally considered quality as well – especially at the time of the deal.

      Many young players think they know everything and, as they move through their career, discover the coaches and other players have a lot to offer. Gardenhire may have had a problem with Garza but that was over 4 years ago and it is conceivable Garza has matured and is now more amenable to coaching. Attitude was never cited by the Rays – they traded him for salary relief since they had (and still have) high-quality cheap replacements.

    • agreed Garza is no number one. But he is a decent pitcher. Def a number 2 or 3. I would prefer C.J. wilson over Garza.

  44. Kismet id love to see the cubs trade Garza to Boston, may i suggest a target? 3rd baseman Will Middlebrooks. he’s a solid all-around athlete with ideal third baseman frame that has filled out since signing. Despite the added weight he has maintained his athleticism. he has real good bat speed with improving upward plane through the hitting zone. and drives the ball hard with backspin when he squares it up. has the projectability for plus power to all fields at the major league level. Improving bat control and pitch recognition. Aggressive hitter. sine you need to replace Aramis anyway hed be a good target

    Garza would fit in well with guys like Lackey and Beckett and assure the Sox clubhouse of years of chicken and beer and playstation and 3rd place finishes, which as a yankee fan i can easily appreciate. i could see Theo talking Ben Cherington into Middlebrooks and Kalish for Garza and laughing for the next decade as the cubbies get two solid regulars for a basically .500 innings eater

  45. kismet at the time Young was considered just as much of a head case, in fact he still is, remember Gardy traded Young this year in division, Which just isnt done. Delmon was also a high draft pick like Garza, it was a you take my Headache for your Headache trade.

    Hendry was critiscized in many circles for overpaying for Garza, its not that hes not talented he surely is, but When your talented teams always think they can fix you and as you know with Milton Bradley sometimes you cant.

    Theirs a reason why the Cubs may move Garza after only one year, and rebuilding isnt it.

  46. What do you Cubs fan think of the new CBA?

    I think it will be much harder for you to rebuild with the new restrictions on the Draft & Int’l Market. Read my take of it here (http://yankeesfansunite.wordpress.com/2011/11/26/new-cba-unkind-to-amateurs-yankees/) and let me know what you think.

    It seems the many of the Cubs best prospects (Baez, Vogelbach, Maples & Dunston) were taken in the 2011 draft as Hendry got permission to spend and he did. He spent $12M giving out huge over-slot bonuses. He gave over $1M to picks in the 11th & 14th rd. Those days are gone. No player past the 10th round can get over $100,000 now.

    You guys have to hate this CBA right?

  47. The Yankees are not interested in trading for Sean Marshall, nor should they be. Marshall is a set-up man who happens to be a lefty. The Yankees already have 3 set-up men in their bullpen in Robertson, Chamberlain, and Soriano. There is zero chance that Brian Cashman will add quality prospects such as Nunez, Romine, Betances, etc. if it means acquiring Marshall. He would simply be a luxury, albeit an unnecessary one. As Fish said, the Yankees need a LOOGY (lefty specialist). With their bullpen already a strong-point, all they need to do really is acquire someone who can get that tough lefty out. It doesn’t need to be somebody very expensive such as Marshall. I’d rather take a flyer on 41 year old Darren Oliver than give up a couple potentially very good prospects (like Romine, Nunez, etc.) for Marshall.

  48. yes, jesus was proposed for both halladay and lee — but that was before nyy began to get answers to “what would jesus do?” with his impressive bat in his short introduction to the bigs

    • I really hope Jesus doesn’t get traded. I have been following him alot with his minor career and I think his bat is legit.

      • Jesus is definitely legit.

        When have you seen any RH batters hit HRs that deep to RF before….almost effortlessley too. Not only does he have huge power to literally ALL fields, he also shows the willingness/ability to shorten up and take a base hit when that’s all the pitcher is giving him. That is a rare trait to see in power hitters, most of whom take the same swing no matter what the count or situation. That is the reason he is so often compared to Miquel Cabrera. The guy is special and will get better as he adds more muscle to his lanky frame, doesn’t have to worry about Catching every day and works with Kevin Long. Sky is the limit!

  49. Garza for Nunez, Sanchez, and Warren probably could get it done too. I much prefer to get Montero in a deal though. Any thoughts?

    • Interesting that no one has come up with that combo yet but it might work. Had thought that Gary Sanchez might be too far from the Majors to headline the package but he’s ranked as the #30 prospect by Baseball America.

      Nunez is definitely ready to start in Chicago at 2B or 3B and Adam Warren could make the Cubs’ rotation out of ST or shortly thereafter. Warren is often forgotten in the Yankee system because Banuelos, Betances, Nova & Noesi have gotten the attention. But Cashman always mentions Warren whenever they ask him about who he likes in the minors.

      Warren, Phelps, Noesi & DJ Williams are all overshadowed the same way Nova was for years. Then when Nova was finally given an opportunity, everyone wondered “where did this guy come from?”.

      • Morning Fishjam, up late or early?…
        Sanchez is not a good trading chip…I don’t think Cashman will trade him for anyone other then that guy in Seattle (I draw a blank, sorry).
        He is a couple years away+/- but, he has the talent to be the best of the bunch. The bad thing is, it is a gamble with any catcher, just as with pitchers.
        Would you trade Sanchez for a guy like Garza?
        Of course, I would never trade one of our top guys for anyone…if I could get away with it. Anyhow, I think the Cubs will hold out for more then Cash will give up.

        • Well since the Yankees seem to not want to trade either of the B’s nor Montero, so the Cubs would try to get as much as they can for Garza. He’s a very good pitcher, not an ace. However he is a very good two starter and the Yankees really need pitching, so his demand, past success in the AL East, and his cheapness really make him valuable. So no, Sanchez probably could be a part of this deal, personally I really like Romine too but all I can do is dream. What do you think a fair package for Garza would be?

          • Bill…
            To be honest, the Cubs need players with a good upside. They know that this year and maybe next are gone so, were I them…I would go for quantity with good upside not top of the line sure things. I could fill in with other trades or FA signings for the better players. Every team needs the good regular players to complement their stars.
            What say you guys/gals?

          • Bill / Old Yankee –

            I think Cashman has to headline a Garza deal with Betances or Sanchez along with Nunez and a 3rd solid prospect from like Adam Warren or an offensive equivalent of him.

            Old yank, I love Sanchez’ potential but he’s another guy who I question if he will actually stay behind the plate. His bat has elite potential and I think he has enough athleticism to play a corner OF spot. He has big power and definitely hits enough to be a MLB corner OF. Hate to give him up and I would think long and hard before trading him for Garza. If that’s the price, I’d first make a run at CJ Wilson.

            • Fishjam…
              I think giving up Betances, and one of the other pitching prospects (of the 2nd tear) should be more then enough for a pitcher that knows all the answers…but, doesn’t even know he doesn’t know. I realize this puts me in the minority, would this disqualify me from managing the Yankees, next time around?

              Now Sanchez is a problem for me, I have only seen him 4 times and I confess I am not a good job of catchers until I pitch to them or see them for 20-30 games. I will bow to your knowledge of him. If what you say is true, I would like to see him in the OF/3rd base and have Romine be the everyday catcher. Remember back a few years ago the Yankees had two great catchers, they both played most every game, one would catch and the other would play left field. Why not have a new Yogi and Howard or, Scanchez and Romine?
              I am too greedy, right?

              • The problem with that is that you need to realize is that Garza is better than anyone on the Yankees pitching staff excluding Sabathia. He’s a very good pitcher and is probably the best on the market excluding Wilson. However, Wilson seems to not fair well in the post-season while Garza thrives. He’s also younger, cheaper, and is still on the upswing, which makes him a perfect option for the Yankees. Thats why they’d have to pay alot to aquire him, as a Cub fan I would love a Banuelos and Romine with a low level prospect. I would dream for a Montero and Nunez, but I’d settle for a Sanchez and Nunez headliner. I know I’m greedy, but honestly, the Cubs are in need of prospects and the Yankees need pitching, so it still makes sense to me. I don’t think they’d get a monster deal, but they need to score a big one.

            • The deal with Nunez, Betances, and Sanchez sounds so great to my ears as a Cub fan. If Theo got that return I’d be happy.

              • Bill…
                If I were Theo, I would dance in the streets to get a deal like that.
                If I were Cashman, I’d be looking for a new job as dog catcher!
                I think you are under stating the facts a bit don’t you?
                Garza 10-10 3.32 era. Granting, the team didn’t help much…so let’s say 14-10.
                Nova 16-4 3.70 era. (I think) he never left a game in a position to lose, now that is a salient point, don’t you think?
                Garcia 12-8 3.62 era. good enough to be as good as Garza, don’t you think?
                I don’t know you but, you sound like a good hard line Cub Fan to me…this I can relate to. It also sounds as though throwing a bunch of stats at you (other then the ones I wrote) could be handled very well by you, atÚÚÚ lest, better then me
                Not BS’ing you at all, when I say; Many of the Yankee fans on this blog want to hear from you at anytime. You know the National League much better then some of us (me). 8)

                • Old Yankee, I do agree that Nova is an excellent pitcher don’t get me wrong. I’m just a huge advocate of prospects being far less valuable then proven major league players. I also am not the biggest fan of the win stat because it all is determined by the team. Phill Hughes went 18-8 with a 4.19 ERA. However I’m getting side tracked, I’m not a big dreamer. Montero and Banuelos are off-limits unless its for Hernandez. I completley understand that, but Betances, Romine and Nunez would suffice don’t you think? I really do appreciate your input I enjoy inteligent discusions with other fans, so would that work?

      • Fish, when you can, can you please check your email? Thanks.

  50. Id rather not trade for Garza frankly, he comes with the same caveats as AJ Burnett when we signed him from Toronto,great arm, tremendous Stuff, but not willing to listen to coaching, Burnett had his best year teamed with Halladay and AJ said that Roy helped him greatly, but despite all the accolades, hes barely a 500 pitcher.

    that is Garzato a tee, i say let the cubs keep him or trade him to Boston.

    once again look at his track record,hes played for 4 95+ win teams,and hes still under 500 on his career, he’s a guy who pitches just well enough to lose

  51. Bill Bruce (@BBruce325) | November 27, 2011 at 11:13 PM
    Old Yankee, I do agree that Nova is an excellent pitcher don’t get me wrong. I’m just a huge advocate of prospects being far less valuable then proven major league players. I also am not the biggest fan of the win stat because it all is determined by the team.
    *****************************************
    In answer to prospects I can only say; you are in the majority, and rightfully so. As to Era and W-L, that stuff is good for the weekend fans…although an era of say–2.25 and a 12-14 record shows us we should look deeper.
    I have the same trouble with some of the really talented guys (like yourself), My work over the years made me into a chess thinker. That’s my excuse…and I’ll stick by it!
    Have a good one Bill. 8)

  52. Wow, I read nearly all the comments here…whew! This is all in fun so don’t get too mad at me…I think Garza is going to be traded this winter, as is Soto (C), Byrd (OF), Marshall (top flight set up man not a middle reliever), Barney (2B) and any of our wealthy scrubs like Soriano (not likely ever), Dempster (why keep him in the rebuild), basically everyone but Castro and some of our minor leaguers. The Cubs have a glut of decent but not great AA-AAA guys who can play 2B, SS, or 3B (Lemaheiu, Lake, Flaherty, Vitters and others) so I don’t think Nunez is ever going to be in a Garza deal. The Cubs need players who can play in 2012, not 2014 or later. I think the possible deals could look like this, Garza for Montero straight up, or Garza & Marshall (don’t even tell me the Yankees would prefer Boone Logan or Joba, or even Soriano to Marshall, that’s just dumb homer) for Montero & 2 lesser pitchers like Noesi and Phelps. Smart Cubs fans know we’re in the shit but we also know you Yankees fans think every .500 pitcher in your system would be our number #1 prospect. Also consider these thoughts: Garza is an AL east pitcher; tough, a good teammate, and under control for two more years. CJ Wilson is not, is 3-4 years older and will be a huge money investment as a FA. None of the other aces you guys mention are going anywhere, not Halliday, Lee, Fernandez, none of them. If the Yankees were wise, they try to do the Garza for Montero swap and then Banuelos to the White Sox for John Danks. That would give the Yanks rotation CC, Garza, Danks, Nova, and then AJ or Hughes or someone they didn’t trade. That would be an unreal rotation. The Yanks would still have the loads of the pitchers they think they have to trade for other pieces they’ll need. I’m a Chicago fan, but adding Garza & Danks would set the Yankees up for years.

    • Garza & Marshall (don’t even tell me the Yankees would prefer Boone Logan or Joba, or even Soriano to Marshall, that’s just dumb homer)

      It’s not that we don’t know how good Marshall is. It’s simply not an intelligent allocation of resources, to trade for Marshall. It’s not about who they prefer. It’s that the Yankees already have 3 set-up men in their bullpen: David Robertson, Soriano, Chamberlain. Robertson had every bit as good of a year as Marshall did this past year. Why spend prospects in an area of strength?

      Garza for Montero straight up

      Not happening. Cash won’t be giving up Montero for just anyone, only a (close to) sure thing, elite SP. Sorry, but Garza is not an elite SP, and is not a sure thing.

      Banuelos to the White Sox for John Danks

      Also not happening. Why would the Yankees trade their #2 top prospect for one year of a #3 starter? Danks is good, but he’s not that fantastic.

  53. Jeff…
    Thanks for dropping by, don’t ever worry about any of the Yankee fans here getting upset unless; you become, argumentative, derogatory, insulting and down right mean…which, by the way, I hope never happens.
    You have the eyes of a Cub fan and I understand that but, to discount Joba as a weapon in the BP is a mistake actually, Joba did a bit better against leftys. Yes I agree, the team would like a good lefty out of the pen but not for Monty and Phelps, Noesi…one of which will be in the starting rotation in 2012. Which in translation means, the Cubs would have two starters for one (although proven) and Monty one hell of a hitter (a killer in your park) but, where do you play him? You wouldn’t, you would trade him back to the AL for a good bunch of chips!
    As far as giving up Banuelos for john Danks, no way…not me anyhow. Others may go for that deal but I can’t see Cashman giving up 10-12 years of a very good high side lefty for 3-5 years of Danks.
    One must keep in mind the new MLcba agreement, which cuts the legs out from under this team.
    From the eyes of a very old Yankee fan, thank you jeff. 8)

  54. will this fly?

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