Game 86 Lineup: Angels vs. Yankees

Welcome T N T (Trout & Trumbo)

Lineup vs. Angels

Derek Jeter SS
Curtis Granderson CF
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Mark Teixeira 1B
Robinson Cano 2B
Nick Swisher RF
Andruw Jones LF
Russell Martin C
Jayson Nix DH

RHP Hiroki Kuroda

Some interesting Tweets:

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About Delia E.

Delia Enriquez is the managing editor of Yankees Fans Unite. She enjoys analyzing the New York Yankees whether it be their pitching, roster or their manager. You can follow her on twitter @dfiregirl4 for more tweets, analysis and opinion on the Yankees.

Posted on July 13, 2012, in Game Threads and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink. 81 Comments.

  1. looking forward to hear reports about Gardner from Sunday’s simulated game.

  2. I always look forward to series’ with the Angels. They give us a barometer on how good we really are. They are a deep well-rounded team that can beat you in multiple ways and always seem to exploit a Yankee weakness everytime we play them.

    Right now, Texas, LA & NY are the class of the American League with Detroit, Chicago and the rest of the AL East on the next level of teams that need to make improvements to get to that level. Without Longoria & Joyce, TB is in trouble. The rest of the teams in the East have too many pitching questions. If one of Baltimore’s young arms get hot they have a chance. Toronto has lost too many SPs to injuries and Boston’s pitching has just sucked.

  3. They have pitching, hitting, and young talent. A great mix. How funny is it that everyone is talking more about “TNT” rather than Pujols.

  4. Texas has Darvish and Harrison.

    LAA has Weaver and CJ Wilson.

    Chicago has Peavey and Sale.

    We have CC and ?

    CashMan :
    Get Hamels now! Beat Phillies offer! That’s why we spend $200 to $2000 to see a game!

    • Again Twasp you know if they get Hamels and then sign him long term it will be hard to keep Cano and Granderson. Obviously you want to keep Cano. But even with Hamels money will be tight because it seems the Yankees want to get to 189million.

  5. Raise the budget line…..Hank gets one less yacht And Hal gets less hairspray for his helmet head.

  6. To Oldkoolaidedrinker07:

  7. Matt s – based on the numbers below, who is the most underpaid Yankee, and who is the most overpaid Yankee?
           
    Major League Baseball Salaries
    2012 New York Yankees Salaries
    PLAYER SALARY POSITION
    Alex Rodriguez $ 30,000,000 Third Baseman
    Mark Teixeira $ 23,125,000 First Baseman
    CC Sabathia $ 23,000,000 Pitcher
    Derek Jeter $ 15,729,364 Shortstop
    Mariano Rivera $ 14,940,025 Pitcher
    Robinson Cano $ 14,000,000 Second Baseman
    Rafael Soriano $ 11,000,000 Pitcher
    Nick Swisher $ 10,250,000 Outfielder
    Curtis Granderson $ 10,000,000 Outfielder
    Hiroki Kuroda $ 10,000,000 Pitcher
    Russell Martin $ 7,500,000 Catcher
    Freddy Garcia $ 4,000,000 Pitcher
    Pedro Feliciano $ 3,750,000 Pitcher
    Phil Hughes $ 3,200,000 Pitcher
    Brett Gardner $ 2,800,000 Outfielder
    Andruw Jones $ 2,000,000 Outfielder
    Boone Logan $ 1,875,000 Pitcher
    Joba Chamberlain $ 1,675,000 Pitcher
    David Robertson $ 1,600,000 Pitcher
    Raul Ibanez $ 1,100,000 Designated Hitter
    Eric Chavez $ 900,000 Infielder
    Michael Pineda $ 528,475 Pitcher
    Ivan Nova $ 527,200 Pitcher
    Clay Rapada $ 525,000 Pitcher
    Eduardo Nunez $ 523,800 Shortstop
    Cory Wade $ 508,925 Pitcher
    David Aardsma $ 500,000 Pitcher
    Chris Stewart $ 482,500 Catcher
    Austin Romine $ 482,000 Catcher
    Cesar Cabral $ 480,000 Pitcher
    Brad Meyers $ 480,000 Pitcher

    • Brett Gardner –> underpaid

      Alex Rodriguez –> overpaid.

      • Excellent Delia – Gardner is a key member of the Yankees. He singlehandedly makes them a multidimensional offense……which they don’t have without him. SPEED KILLS.

        Arod has become the most expensive singles hitter in the history of baseball. But he can turn it around…..if he can hit 30hrs and bat .280 and drive in 100 again he will not be such a liability.

        • If we’re paying a player $30M to be a singles hitter then heck. Gardner should get $30M to be a singles hitter and to steal bases.

          • I’d buy into that one! Better than using it as is and what it is producing.
            Good thinking . :)

          • Gardner is a non issue as of right now, he hasn’t played.

            • lol, Doug I agree with you. I’ve been saying since early June that I think this whole thing is a smokescreen so that Cashman can try and acquire an OF without being totally held up in a trade. The guy has played 7 games, that’s it. Hard to imagine that anything but a serious elbow injury could have him on the sidelines this long.
              My conspiracy theory is that Cashman took Qualls off Philly’s hands as part 1 of a gentleman’s agreement between Cashman and Amaro regarding Victorino.

        • twasp..
          You crook, you stole that from me but, that’s alright it fits very well. “Speed Kills” is right and we need Brett and Nunez back quickly as to-nights game shows. No HRs no wins! :)

        • twasp, tell me the last time the Yanks were 20 games over .500 at this time of the year. I would have to say that the Yanks are doing just fine without Gardner.

  8. Ken – I know you are an avid reader and enjoy reading other things than blogs. Here’s an article from SI :

    At first blush, it seems unlikely that there could ever been a total agreement on anything in baseball. Arguing has forever been part of the game. It is everywhere: You see the infield in, I see pinched at the corners. You see a curve, I see a slider. You see the hot dog man, I see cotton candy.
    When it comes to the Hall of Fame, which is currently voted on by people ranging from tenured baseball writers to members of various committees, the divergence of opinion becomes even more magnified.
    Generally, this is a group that can’t agree on anything: Sandy Koufax only got 87 percent of the votes when he was elected in 1972. Mickey Mantle got 88 percent. Even Babe Ruth — only the greatest hitter ever — had five percent of the voters say he wasn’t a Hall of Famer. Tom Seaver, who missed unanimous election by just five votes, got 98.84 percent in 1992 and remains the closest to perfection.
    In other words, unanimity isn’t the Hall electorate’s strong point and it is very likely there will never be a player to get 100 percent of the votes. In fact, in looking at the current baseball landscape, I would propose that there is only one player in the foreseeable future who even has a chance at accomplishing such a feat. One player who might bridge the gap between stat-geeks and the crusty old lifers. One player who everyone — regardless of their individual views on the game — sees as worthy. You’ve probably heard of him.
    His name is Derek Jeter.
    ***
    In the third season of The West Wing (which, frankly, should get 100 percent of the votes when it’s eligible for the Greatest Series Ever Hall of Fame), there is a scene in the episode “The Two Bartlets” where Toby Ziegler, a moody senior staffer, is trying to explain to President Jed Bartlet why his Republican opponent in the upcoming election is going to be so difficult to beat.
    The Republican, Florida Gov. Rob Ritchie, is not an academic like Bartlet. He is plain-spoken. Easy to understand. Someone who will can be liked by both Oklahoma farmers and California tech geeks. “Ritchie’s good for all time zones,” Toby finally says.
    Jeter is the same. The demographics of the Hall of Fame voters are obviously difficult to pin down, but there are some generalizations that can be made. To get 100 percent of the votes, a player would need to appeal to everyone: Those who value traditional statistics and those who look at more modern metrics; those who care about winning and those who want gaudy personal totals; those who look for dignity and representing the game well and those who simply use their “gut” to tell them if a player is worthy.
    Want advanced stats? Jeter’s career WAR is 70.2, which is 55th all-time among position players. Roberto Alomar, who got 90 percent of the 539 votes cast this year and will be inducted in Cooperstown on Sunday, is below him at 63.5. So is another shortstop in Barry Larkin (68.9), as well as Tony Gwynn (68.4), Jackie Robinson (63.2),Yogi Berra (61.9) and roughly three-quarters of the rest of the players already in the Hall.
    Prefer more traditional markers? Jeter has already passed 3,000 career hits, a long-time benchmark for position players. Consider, too, that Cal Ripken is currently the position player to received the greatest percentage of votes (98.53 percent in 2007) and Jeter has him beat — handily — in most critical rate statistics. Jeter’s .312 career average is 36 points higher than Ripken’s. His .383 on-base percentage is 43 points higher. His .831 OPS is 43 points higher.
    Ripken, of course, is crediting with “saving baseball” after the disaster of the 1994 strike and there is value in that. Public perception is certainly a factor for some voters — does this player “matter?” — and Ripken did. But as much as anyone ever has, Jeter has mattered, too.
    He has been the face of the game’s most famous franchise and, in many ways, the entire league, for nearly his entire career: After 9/11. When Team USA competed in the World Baseball Classic for the first time. When Yankee Stadium was closed down. When George Steinbrenner died.
    He has been popular. He has been dignified. He has been reliable and trustworthy for fans, never letting them down with even a hint of a connection to gambling or crime or the use of PEDs.
    No one would say that Jeter is the best player ever or even, necessarily, of his generation. But that is not the issue here. The question is whether he is someone everyone, regardless of how they rate a player’s career, could see the name “Derek Jeter” and immediately think “Hall of Fame.”
    The question is whether Jeter is good for all time zones.
    ***
    If you look at the active players ahead of Jeter on the all-time list of position players in terms of WAR, there may be an inclination to wonder why Jeter — and not, say, Albert Pujols — would have the best chance at becoming the first 100 percenter. It’s a reasonable question.
    Here are the players ahead of Jeter:
    1. Alex Rodriguez
    2. Albert Pujols
    3. Chipper Jones
    4. Jim Thome
    Taken in reverse order, Thome (while an incredible hitter) will inevitably be docked by some for not playing a field position for much of his career. He never really had a chance.
    Jones, who statistically is one of the most underrated players of all time (his 141 OPS+ is third among third basemen in history) will nevertheless suffer among the intangible-heavy voters, who may hold back because they don’t think of him as a “winner.” It also hurts Jones that he played his entire career in Atlanta, which — while certainly not Kansas City — doesn’t have the spotlight of other cities.
    Pujols, too, will be knocked for a lack of winning, though he has time to change that. Ultimately, the question with Pujols will be about his popularity. Even now, in his prime, Pujols ranks sixth in terms of jersey sales, below players like Jeter (No. 1), Joe Mauer (No. 2) and Chase Utley (No. 4), and even if continues to produce the way he has, his (relatively) lower profile will likely be what keeps him from challenging the 100 percent mark.
    As for A-Rod, the issue is moot. His admission to using PEDs during his career means the question is less about whether he’ll get in unanimously and more about whether he’ll get in at all.
    Jeter does not have that issue. He is clean. He is beloved. He has won five championships. He has been a 12-time All-Star. He has the numbers, regardless of which numbers you happen to think are important.
    I know that baseball has forever been a game of friendly disagreement but Derek Jeter is a first ballot Hall of Famer.
    Surely there’s at least a chance we could all agree on that?
    Follow Sam Borden on Twitter at @SamBorden.

  9. twasp…
    Every writer or fan has his own opinion and is welcome to it. He has the same thoughts as I do on many more things than you would think but, Unanimously 1st pick is where I draw the line. There has never been and never should be a unanimous 1st Ballot pick! I mean Babe, Ty Cobb and that bunch didn’t get 100% all of a sudden we have superman on the Yankees playing SS hitting .365, and 55 HRs a year with 158 RBI’s, I don’t know for sure but, where is he?

  10. Hella awesome win tonight. What way to open up the 2nd half.

  11. Ken – there ia an unwritten rule that says only the all time greats should go in on the first ballot. Jeter is not an all-time great on the level of Willie, Mickey and the splendid splinter. Not only shouldn’t he go in unanimously but he shouldn’t go in on the first ballot.

  12. Michael “money” P. – Tex says “how ya like me now!”

    • If only he could hit singles when we need him to advance a runner. This is what he is now, a guy who hits it over the fence or does nothing at all, who also has a great glove.
      How many times have I said this on Twitter and here? When Teixeira OR Alex hits, the Yankees win. We don’t need them both to hit, just one.
      Our postseason eliminations the last two years were a direct result of the 3 postseason Zombies, Tex, Arod,and Swisher.
      You can’t have 3.4.6 or 4,5,6 hitting a combined .160 something and win a series.
      I don’t mind that we have to hit home runs to win games, home runs are good!! Any team that can hit a lot of home runs has a built in advantage. I mind that we have too many guys who hit it long or not at all, which is exactly why we’ve been sent home the last two postseasons.
      In the playoffs you face better pitchers. In the playoffs relievers are used very liberally. You’ve got to be able to keep the train moving.

      • Michael, the playoffs are like the All-Star game, they are random. There are not enough games to have a true champ. Since 1996 there are only 4 teams with the best season record that have won the world series, most recent the White Sox in 05 and Yanks in 09. The notion that you need average hitters in the playoffs to win is just not true, the teams that get hot at that time win. All the teams that failed in the playoffs have players that failed in the playoffs. The players you mentioned have done poorly in the playoffs the past few years, but that doesn’t mean anything. People don’t like to think of things as random, but when Freese, Renteria, Brousis, and Leyritz hit homers to win games in the world series it seem random to me. Players surprise all the time. Look at Verlander in the All-Star game if he pitches that way again’st the Yanks in the playoffs last year they win. The reality is that with the new playoff systems in sports, the best teams don’t win; but the teams make alot of money.

        • Doug, lol, I thought we had stricken the word random from your vocabulary. Competition can NEVER be random. If it were random then I could get off my couch right now and have the same “random” chance of hitting a HR off Verlander than Robinson Cano. For anything to be random, all chances and probability would have to be equal.

          To use your examples, the chances of Renteria & Pujols hitting a HR aren’t equal but because of PERFORMANCE, EXECUTION & COMPETITION, it’s possible for a less skilled player to out-perform a better skilled player. That is what’s great about sports and competition….one must out-perform/play his opponent. Just because you are more skilled it doesn’t mean you always win…you still have to go out on the field and physically execute/perform better than your competitor on that given day. Nothing random about that. There is an element of chance involved in every sporting event (umpire calls, bad hops, etc.) but as the cliche goes, “baseball is a game of inches” and the difference between faiure and success is most often just that – placement of a pitch an inch or 2, Cano’s HR today skimming off the top of the fence, etc.

          Baseball is the same game in the playoffs as it is in the reg season except the competition is better, the stakes are higher. and the margin for error is shrunk because you lose, you go home. The teams that EXECUTE the best win…..there’s no random coin flips that decide if Cano homers off Verlander or if Swisher does, or if the Yanks beat the Tigers. Human beings competiting decide the outcome of games just like in every competitve sport.

          • fishjam, totally agree with everything you are saying, but baseball is also a game of failures and you can’t predict how someone is going to perform by past stats or any other form of evaluation. There is no way of analyzing when a team or player is going to go on a hitting streak, or when a pitcher is going to throw a mistake pitch. What ever you want to call that is fine with me.

            • I agree Doug….that’s what attracts people to sports in general. Its because the best team doesn’t always win, just the team that performs the best on a given day. That can’t be predicted. It has the same unpredictability in today’s game vs the Angels as it will have in Game 7 of the World Series.

              • fishjam, that’s why I don’t agree with people saying that certain players won’t perfoem in the post season because of their past performance or thier sabermetrics. It has nothing to do with facing better pitching in the playoffs or hitting for average vs. homeruns, it’s about getting hot which can’t be predicted. Anyone that has played the game knows their are times when you are in the zone and have alot of confidence, this can’t be turned on and off when you want it.

                • I agree. But when certain players fail miserably 3-4 years in a row there could be something to it. Some guys put too much pressure on themselves or try to hit HRs all the time rather than staying within themselves and taking what the pitcher gives you. You also have much more intense scouting with teams sending ALL of their advanced scouts to scout playoff teams for weeks/months as oppossed to 1 advanced scout to cover a team for a week or so during the season.

                  And of course you face better pitchers. You are facing mostly #1 and #2 type starters and ace relievers. Far less ABs against #3-5 starters and mediocre middle relievers who tend to make more mistakes. Mistake hitters will have many less errorsto hit and hitters that have big holes or cannot adjust will struggle moreso than the reg season.

                  • Guys…. A fascinating case relevant to what you are talking about is Arod….he was a good postseason player with Seattle……then stunk up the joint In 2005/2006/2007 with the Yankees…..then was fantastic in 2009…..and since then (2010/2011) is back to wetting the bed.

                    In the 2007 season he was the best hitter I ever saw and in the 2007 post season the worst.

                    I think some of the answers have to do with sample sizes, timing ( where his heads at at the time), opposition…….

                    • ARod has always been a player effected by his emotions and his perception. he was clearly pressing and feeling the pressure in some of thos post-seasons. In 2009 he finally seemed to relax. He got the PED admission off his chest that Spring. it isn’t always about how a player performs under pressure but it was often a factor with ARod. Small samples will always be a factor because a player doesn’t get 700 PAs to make up for a poor week or 2 and doesn’t get to fatten up on #4th & 5th starters, middle relievers or the staffs of Minnesota, KC and other poor to mediocre staffs.

                    • Yeah Fish, with Arod he was pressing noticeably, and when he got the PED off his chest that was huge. And I think he felt better in the dugout as Torre was gone, and the divided clubhouse that existed was evening out as Arod had more friends on the team….Tex/CC came over, Spanish players like Cabrera and cano looked up to him. Mo befriended him.

                      I actually thought with a championship under his belt he had beaten the last doubt about him and he would become a monster player.

                    • twasp, in A-Rod’s case I think it was more about getting a good pitch to hit. In 05 –07 A-Rod was being pitched around alot, plus like most hitters the scouting will tell them to pitch around the good hitters in key situations. Many times the hitters that are successful in the playoffs just get good pitches to hit.

                    • Doug – are you saying Arod hit below .200 because he was pitched around in the post season? Is that from your memory or based on the axiom that good hitters get pitched around in the playoffs?

      • Michael ” money ” P. …..TWASP likes that phrase ” Postseason Zombies”.

        • twasp, just look at last year’s world series to see the top hitters were not factors in the series. Hamilton .241, Cruz .200 Holliday .158, Pujols .240. All I’m saying is that there are certain players that teams are going to be more careful with in key situations. Add to that a small sample and a hitter may not get a good pitch to hit and you can see why some players don’t hit in a short series.

  13. Matt B. – russel Martin says “how ya like me now?”

  14. ” if the syringe did fit…….you must not acquit”. Says Johnny Cochrane. No HOF for the ‘Roid!

  15. Delia- Brett Gardner just called , he wants to take you out to dinner and a movie ” Moneyball “

  16. Fish – what is wrong with the WAR statistic? Brett Lawrie leads the AL with a 5.0 WAR but he has 12 errors the most by a 3rd baseman……and only a 103 OPS+ .????

    • Not that I know anything about statistics(hahahahahaha) but the WAR metric is so comically flawed as to be insulting. It makes too many assumptions and violates Occum.
      That hysterical metric assumes that the “replacement” for the Yankees would be the same as the “replacement” for the Padres.

    • twasp, you are changing my view on Sabermetrics! That’s absurd.

    • TWASP – I take WAR with a grain of salt because it puts a lot of emphasis on defensive metrics which I don’t believe in & baserunning. But Brett Lawrie doesn’t lead the A.L. in WAR, he’s actually 3rd on his own team behind Bautista & Encarnacion. The top 5 in the A.L. for WAR is as follows:

      1) Trout 4.9
      2) Cano 4.3
      3) A.Jackson 4.0
      4) Hamilton 3.7
      5) M.Cabrera 3.4

      • Fish- WAR is recalculated every day and Lawrie’s WAR went from 5 to 3.2 in only a couple of days. Taking him from 1st to 8th. Your answer regarding defensive metrics I believe is the correct answer why he has a high WAR even though he is not hitting great.

        AND the defensive WAR must weigh Range/9 rather than fielding %. Because he has a great range factor evennthough he has the most errors.

        This leads to another interesting topic regarding range/9 . It takes putouts + assists Divided by innings. As opposed to fielding percentage which takes Putouts + assists divided by putouts + assist + errors (chances).

        Bill James created the range factor calculation because he said it matters more how many PLAYS a fielder makes rather than the % of chances he converts to an out.

        What say you?

        • I also believe there are different ways of calculating WAR. I’m looking at Fangraphs’ WAR which has Lawrie at 2.7 – 20th in A.L. But, yeah, his value is in his defense since he has a mediocre .751 OPS/102 RC+.

          I don’t fully agree with Range factor because a player can only make plays if the ball is hit to him. What if a player plays 3B on a team full of flyball pitchers as oppossed to a staff of sinkerballing groundball pitchers. They difference in balls hit to him would be huge over a season. There has yet to be a good defensive metric created. The Plus/Minus system has some merit but they all have flaws.

        • Ha ha excellent Fish, that’s exactly what I wanted you to say. The flaw with range factor is it depends on the number of balls hit to the fielder. The fielder might have made more plays not because he has better range but because he had more balls hit to him.

          TWASP has an advanced degree in Statistics ….. And the Big Fish is proving he can swim with the sharks.

  17. Doug….good morning…..do you know what Yankee has the lowest batting average for a season?

    .193 A third baseman.

  18. Ken – Greatest moments in yankee history- enjoy !

    • I’ll buy that…it sure was a game and history changer. Some people right after that play said; Jeter was out of position that’s why he could get to the ball!
      Me, I say, try the better answer…Baseball instincts…some got it, some don’t!
      That was great, just like Willies’ over the head running catch in the WS made Willie that play made Jeter!

    • Good guess Doug……I’ll give you another hint….the year was 1970. Come on Ken….you must remember!

      • Was it Clete Boyer? Ony Yankee 3B I remember from that time period.

        • The answer is……..da da da da……….Jerry Kenney……..does anyone know him?

          He used to catch a ground ball …skip towards 1st base and then throw the ball to first. Bizarre.

          Was a worse hitter than Russel Martin by a lot.

  19. Freddy worked through an outing where he didn’t have his best stuff and Eppley and Robertson did a great job. Yankee relief looks tough!

  20. One of the big surprises of the season is the pitching of Eppley and Rapada. Unheralded heroes of 2012.

  21. CashMan get TWASP this lineup:

    1. Gardner/Jeter
    2. The MelkMan
    3. Cano
    4. Josh Hamilton
    5. Tex
    6.Moustakas
    7. Nunez
    8. Romine
    9. Jeter/Gardner

    Best defensive and offensive OF in baseball

    Best 2 players in baseball (Hamilton/cano)

    Speed – Nunez and Gardner

    Power – cano, Tex, Josh, moose

    High OBP tablesetters – Jeter, cano, melky, Brett

    4 bargains – Nunez, Gardner, romine, moose

    Get’er done!

  22. TWASP owns the team and he goes to his GM FishJam and says ” I know it’s going to be hard, but we need to unload Arod now before he becomes a complete embarrassment……. Think out of the box and give me three alternatives……. I’m willing to eat a large portion of his contract” What would you come up with?

    • fishjam and twasp, you guys are up in the ozone with this one, let’s get back to reality.

    • First thing to look at is what ARod is owed. After this yr, he has 5 more yrs and $127-145 Million depending on how many of the HR milestones he reaches.

      For comparisons sake, when Texas dumped him on the Yanks he had 7 yrs & $183M left on his deal and they picked up $71M of it – so the Yanks agreed to pay him $112M over 7 yrs or $18M per. But they picked up $18M per yr for a 28-yr old, ironman, masher in the prime of his career. Anyone trading for him now, gets a 37-yr old broken down, half DH who will hit no more than 20-25 HRs per yr in a good season.

      If the Yanks could find a team that might think ARod is a drawing card for th next 5 yrs while he chases the HR record, someone MIGHT be willing to pay around $60M over the next 5 yrs leaving the yanks to pay $67-85M over 5 yrs just to get rid of him. Would it be worth it to get rid of Alex considering you’d only save $10-12M per yr for the next 5? Probably better off keeping him around as a DH and part-time 3B hoping he can be productive. Not enough to gain by dealing him.

      You want 2 more out of the box alternatives? Play him at 3B until he gets hurt, try to get him to retire due to his injuries and collect the insurance money on the contract. OR, get him to agree to some type of extension for another yr or 2 guaranteeing some of the $30M in bonuses. By extending the contract you lessen the luxury tax hit. Currently he counts $27.5M against the Tax and the $30M in bonuses would be added in the yrs they are met. Add 2 yrs and guarantee say $24M in bonuses, you can lessen the luxury tax number for the final 7 yrs to $23M. Problem is you have ARod for 7 more yrs instead of 5. But Alex may want those extra 2 yrs since it looks like he’ll need them break Bonds’ record.

      • Fish can you restructure the contract this way? take the 5 years owed and lower the pay out. Then give him a life time service to the Yankees job throwing some of that money into that.

        • Pujols has something like that. It doesn’t count to luxury i believe.

          Albert Pujols 1b
          10 years/$240M (2012-21)

          10 years/$240M (2012-21)
          signed by LA Angels as a free agent 12/8/11
          12:$12M, 13:$16M, 14:$23M, 15:$24M, 16:$25M, 17:$26M, 18:$27M, 19:$28M, 20:$29M, 21:$30M
          full no-trade protection
          milestone bonuses: $3M for 3,000 hits, $7M for 763 HRs
          up to $0.875M annually in award bonuses for Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, All-Star, MVP and WS or LCS MVP
          perks: hotel suite on road, luxury suite for Pujols charity for 10 home games each season, right to buy luxury suite between first and third base for all home games
          10-year, $10M personal-services contract begins once player contract expires

        • Matt….I’m not positive how a personal services clause would work for luxury tax purposes . I would think it would still count the same as regular salary and be divided evenly across the life of the playing contract. The only benefit for the team is they can defer that money until after he’s retired. I do know its not permitted to lower the total value of a contract by re-doing it. ARod was willing to do that to facilitate a trade from Texas to Boston but the MLBPA would not allow it.

          I commented on Joel Sherman’s extension idea back in March.
          Twasp – read Sherman’s article if you didn’t see it in March.

          http://yankeesfansunite.com/2012/03/11/sherman-says-extensions-could-help-with-2014-budget/

          • Fish just found this article from Jayson Stark on espn.com

            By Jayson Stark | ESPN.com

            Major League Baseball and the players’ association have informed teams and agents that they no longer will approve personal-service deals and special “milestone” bonus clauses similar to those contained in Albert Pujols’ contract with the Los Angeles Angels, officials of both agencies told ESPN.com.

            MLB and the union agreed to the changes this month in the wake of Pujols’ 10-year, $240 million contract and Ryan Zimmerman’s six-year, $100 million extension with the Washington Nationals, which also contains a personal-services option following his playing career.

            The contracts of Pujols and Zimmerman, as well as the milestone-bonus “marketing” package in Alex Rodriguez’s 2007 contract with the Yankees, won’t be affected by the new rules, said Dan Halem, MLB’s senior vice president of labor relations. But no future contracts containing similar provisions will be allowed, Halem said.

            Michael Weiner, executive director of the players’ union, also confirmed the new rules. “Both clauses raise questions under the Basic Agreement, and both parties felt they should not be a subject of individual negotiations,” Weiner said.

            Rob Manfred, MLB’s executive vice president for economics and league affairs, told ESPN.com that the two sides began talking about implementing the new rules this past winter because of growing concerns that arose from the language in Pujols’ and Zimmerman’s contracts.

            The “milestone” bonus in Pujols’ deal could pay him up to $10 million in “marketing” payouts — $3 million for his 3,000th hit, another $7 million if he breaks Barry Bonds’ all-time home-run record.

            The league and the union have agreed that bonuses such as those violate a provision in baseball’s basic agreement that prohibits contract incentives based on virtually all statistical achievements.

            Pujols also has the option to accept a 10-year, $10 million personal-services contract with the Angels once he retires as an active player, and Zimmerman’s new extension contains the option for a five-year, $10 million personal-services deal.

            However, the two sides have concluded that the Basic Agreement doesn’t permit players to agree to contracts that cover obligations beyond their playing careers.

            One source told ESPN.com that baseball is trying to close loopholes that teams might be able to use to avoid paying a luxury tax, and both of these provisions fall under that heading because neither milestone bonuses nor personal-services deals are considered to be guaranteed money.

        • Thank you Matt, I brought that up last year, I think and got no feed back, which isn’t to suprising!

      • Wow ..fantastic Fish….I knew I was right to hire you as my GM.

        I love the ” play him until he gets hurt and collect the insurance option.” Arod will breakdown again ….if we have learned anything from the juicer era it is that the juicers fall apart at age 35/36.

        Hmmm very devious….TWASP likes it.

  23. Doug…. I know you fancy yourself as a realist……It somehow gives you the feeling of superiority…. but great things happen when people hypothesize out of the box.

  24. Also, TWASP is up in the ozone not FishJam. FishJam is grounded in statistics and hands on knowledge from his playing dates . … But he is willing to entertain hypotheticals and not criticize them because he is a gentleman.

  25. Yeah, Fish, No one was pitching around Arod in 2006/2007 postseason for sure. He would have gladly accepted a walk the way he was going and he has a great eye. If they were pitching around him he would have walked more. In 2007 he walked only twice and in 2006 he didn’t walk at all. I remember him swinging through strike after strike …..Timing just way off ….. Pitchers saw it and just blew the ball by him or buckled his knees with off-speed stuff. It got so pathetic Torre moved him to bat 8th. ( though I’m not condoning that move…..never embarrass your player like that….he would have never done that to Jeter (Ken says). :-)

  26. When you look back it is amazing how much Torre must have disliked Arod.
    1. Arods 2007 was off the charts one of the great seasons in baseball history and Torre bats him 8th because he’s not going well. Ouch!
    2. Torre writes a book and reveals a- Arod is a prima Donna who doesn’t even get his own coffee b- his teammates call him A-fraud.c- Arod cares more about the way he looks when he hits then the result.

    What is up with that? …..Arod should have punched Torre in his big nose.

  27. Maybe our perception Fish, of Arod being a broken down 37 year old DH who can only hit 20 -25 hrs is not shared by all the GMs. Maybe someone thinks he can still hit and field to 39-40 years old. Maybe they want the draw to their stadium when Arod chases Bonds. Maybe they will take Arod off of our hands if we pick up the major portion of the bill. If that improbable scenario does exist…the question becomes what do we gain by dumping him? Can we come up with enough positives for dumping him ….enough to balance just keeping him around and hoping he will be productive.

    1. He won’t be taking up a spot in the lineup….and we can transition in Headly/moose.

    2. ?

    • I thought before the season A-rod was going to have a great year. Not all time for him but something special. He had a new trainer in the off-season and most articles in the off-season was about his workouts with his core. He also went to Germany for the blood spinning treatment that Kobe Bryant had. Kobe said it worked for him and swore by it and told A-Rod about it.

    • Some team might bite and accept about $10M per yr for 5 years. When you consider a guy like David Ortiz can’t get better than a 2-year contract at his age as a DH, not many teams would want ARod for 5 years. Ortiz is still an elite hitter while ARod is a slightly above average hitting part-time 3B who needs a lot of days off and time at DH to stay on the field.

      So if you can save $50-60M or $10-12M per yr by getting rid of him, is it worth it? Can you get a better player for $10-12M than ARod? The answer is maybe. You could sign Swisher or a player like him for that amount. Or you could trade ARod and offer Big Papi a 2 yr – $32m deal to DH. At his point they probably are better of keeping him than risk making a bad situation worse by eating nearly $100 Million to have a player break records for another team.

  28. Interesting that you brought up Ortiz…..in 2008/2009 everyone wrote him off but he has come back and had two outstanding seasons and this season at 36 is amazing. Why is he hitting better than Arod…. Surely Arod has been considered the more talented hitter. does this lend credibility that Arod will eventually get back to .290/30/100 and what we are seeing now is just an aberration?

    • I and many others are hoping that it is an aberration, for the sake of the team. I mean the old A-Rod can care this team anywhere he wants to take them.
      The one we have, has trouble getting his two legs working to gether,…hay A-Rod, load up on your back side (and leg) before moving forward, you can’t be half way about it. What happened to that relaxed easy swing of yours?

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