Would missing the playoffs be a good thing for the Yankees?

That seems like a stupid question since the Yankees model of success is built upon putting a winner on the field and making the playoffs every season.  The added revenue from making the playoffs is significant and when you consider they have made it every year but once since 1995, that added revenue is substantial.  However, the way this team has played this season, I believe major changes are needed this offseason and perhaps missing the post-season will push ownership into making those changes.  The only time this club missed the playoffs in the last 17 years (2008), ownership responded by spending over $400 Million on 3 big Free Agents that led to a World Series the following year.

While I don’t think the team will spend like that this Winter no matter what, a failure to make the playoffs could lead ownership to make a change at GM and/or Manager.  Those are the 2 guys directly responsible for the old, slow and one-dimensional offense and the old team that is limping to the finish-line.  Cashman built this veteran team and had only 2 players on it whose games weren’t built on the HR – Gardner & Nunez.  Gardner was injured in April and never adequately replaced until over-the-hill Ichiro was obtained in late July.  Nunez was banished to the minors early in the year despite hitting .294 and leading the team with 6 SBs.  Cashman never replaced the youthful energy and speed those 2 players brought to the team and instead patched holes by giving expanded roles to the likes of Andruw Jones and Raul Ibanez.  The guys he did bring in were all veteran journeyman types like McGehee, Pearce & Nix.  Cashman has to take the fall for not bringing in better replacements and for not having adequate replacements at the AAA level.  Everyone knew this team had to get more dynamic, yet he did nothing to help it.

Nearly all of Cashman’s trades since the Swisher deal in 2008 have been busts.  Despite preaching every year about getting younger and more athletic he has assembled a team that is the very antithesis of that – an old, slow, boring club.  He has traded away most of the players that would be the core of the team now.  And the few young pieces he has maintained, Girardi does not use or they are jerked around. Nunez was sent down and now that he’s back up sits on the bench.   How many times has David Phelps been jerked from starter to reliever, reliever to starter, minors to majors, etc.  Phelps has been one of the few bright spots this year and just threw a huge game in Boston to keep the team tied for 1st place.  Unfortunately for him, he’ll be back in the bullpen from here on out as Andy Pettitte returns to once again try to save this team.

Pettitte saved Cashman from the brutal Pineda situation and Freddy Garcia‘s awful April.  He will now attempt to come back early from a broken ankle to save the team again.  And that has been the theme of this season.  The old veterans like Andy and especially Derek Jeter have managed to somehow keep this team afloat and probably save the jobs of Cash & Girardi.  But should their efforts overshadow the poor team Cashman has assembled and all of the ridiculous decisions and indecisiveness from Girardi?  I think not and believe this team needs to make changes this Winter.  Ideally, ownership will make the changes even if they do slip in the playoffs but if it takes missing the post-season to see real change, I’ll accept that.  Does anyone truly believe this team can win the World Series anyway?  They are 10-15 since August 15th and have not won back to back games during that span.  Despite their impressive romp through the National League in June, they have been no better than a .500 team.

So while I will never root against the team to win and hope they somehow win the division and the World Series, I am tired of the current regime and will accept missing the playoffs if that will bring the change I believe is needed?  What do the rest of you think?  Do the Yanks really have a chance at the WS this year?  And do you believe in the current management team of Cashman & Girardi to lead this team into the future?

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About fishjam25

Was a 4-yr Pitcher and Communications Major at Seton Hall University in the 90s. His knowledge & opinion of the game comes from his background as a player and ardent lifetime Yankee fan. However, Fishjam also incorporates sabermetrics and statistical support to form a well-rounded view of the game.

Posted on September 13, 2012, in Personal Opinion and tagged . Bookmark the permalink. 122 Comments.

  1. if they are so good against the national league, they should be able to win a world series i think.

    jeter could be the world series mvp

  2. I wouldnt mind missing playoffs if it means changes. Girardi i think can run the club if they decide to go a little younger. The players they brought like chavez, ibanez, ichiro, have played during times girardi did. Dickerson and nunez should stay in bigs next year and choice on swisher is big. He has value by playin right and first to back up tex. I think 2 year deal 3 max is good. Cano is due for big pay check. And let martin walk. Cervy, romine, stewart can split time at backstop. Until gary sanchez and murphy come up. Outfield of swisher, dickerson and gardner will work. Still on the fence with grandy. Lot of Ks hasnt stole a ton for his speed. Dont know what his future holds maybe a pitcher and some prospects will trade out. But bunch of guys waiting in the wings and ready to roll by 2014/15

    • Most people like HR’s from there corner outfielders. There won’t be many HR’s from that combo. But i agree I’d rather go younger.

    • Kevin – Swisher will be a tough choice. But I think because of the money & years he’ll command he’s a goner. I always think it’s better to get rid of a player a year early than a year late. So with Swish, it might hurt not having him next yr, I think we’ll be glad when 3-4 yrs down the road he’s making big money for someone else.

  3. If they get healthy and play their best baseball, they won’t have much of a problem winning another title. It’s easy to dismiss their record during interleague unless you consider who they played. Nats are no joke, Atlanta either and at the time the Mets looked like they could actually win games.

    Joe has been managing like a deer in headlights…. yes he’s had a ton of injuries to work around but some of his in-game decisions are as if he’s rolling dice (literally) back there.

    Love him or hate him, I doubt Cashman is going anywhere, except higher up the chain which might not be a bad thing depending on who replaces him. Their go-to’s are likely to be someone walready in the org; be it Oppenheimer or somewone else along those lines.

    As far as Phelps is concerned, that’s what a swing man does, and i have no problem with them testing him out on a limited basis before throwing him in the rotation full time. Now, if they were to bounce him all over the place again next year i’d take issue with it, but let’s be honest… this isn’t something that is exclusive to the Yankees. With all of the issues we’ve had with our starting pitching it’s kind of difficult to have a set role for your long man. This isn’t 2009 when we lost one day (Pettitte got pushed back a day) of SP due to injuries.

    Lastly, the issue with Nunez. It’s really too bad that he hurt his thumb and missed most of the season as he really could use the reps at a single position. He absolutely stunk something rotten moving from position to position last year. Even if he can swing a decent bat, when you allow more runs than you contribute you need to go somewhere, anywhere, and get your stuff together. I can see using him as a DH/pinch runner right now but the only time he should put a glove on is if he’s serving hot dogs.

  4. Nice thoughts Fish. If missing the playoffs means the team taking a new directions I am all for it.

    • Fish you hit the nail on the head and I have said for a long time that whatever it takes to get rid of these two clowns I am all for, even it means missing the playoffs.
      The way that Cashman has handled this team since the 2009 title has been embarassing, it is a comedy of errors.
      The Montero trade hurts so bad it isn’t even funny. We got a joke of a Shrek in return for him and his ,264 average with 17 doubles and 15 home runs doesn’t begin to tell the tale of what he might have done for us in Yankee Stadium, a place his stroke was built for. He’s playing in possibly the worst park in the entire AL for his swing(and for just about anyone elses for that matter). His stats on the road? 58 games in which he is 70-229(.306) with 9 home runs.
      He’s hitting .221 in 62 home games.
      I don’t want to hear the BS from those who defend this trade. We have STRUGGLED with bats since August and he certainly would have HUGE fit on this team as a part time catcher and DH’ing against lefties. Montero is hitting .338 vs lefties this year, and lefties have hurt us badly.
      Montero’s average this year in AL East parks?
      Camden Yards-.417
      Yankee Stadium- .273
      The Trop- .318
      Rogers- .200
      Fenway- .143

      In the AL East Parks he is 22-78(.285)

      The move was to use him this year and THEN trade him, certainly for more than that joke Pineda who Cashman obviously didn’t do his homework on regarding his mental makeup and who only had one good half of a season in his life in a park that makes most pitchers look like Cy Young.

      Cashman loses every trade of significance he makes. Cashman stymies the development of young players. Ours have to be 25 before they can start. In our system? Trout would have been in Trenton this year, being brought along “slowly”. Sanchez would be fast tracked in every system that desperately needed a catcher, but not ours. We’ll be lucky to see Sanchez starting in 2015.
      His Joba rules destroyed Joba’s starting career and he ended up with TJ anyway. The Joba rules almost destroyed Hughes, who has been huge this year despite the way they tried to ruin his head last year too. I still say that Hughes should have started the game that Garcia ruined last year vs Detroit and that we may well have won that series and the World Series if not for the moronic starting of Garcia( no fastball vs the Tigers, lol) last year.

      Everything this guy does is wrong and don’t even get me started on paranoid Joe, who understands as much about stats as I do about rocket science. The Boss would have had both of them walking the unemployment line following 2010.

      • The Montero trade wasn’t bad. End of story.

        You CANNOT see an injury (unless there is a prior history of them, therefore risk to it).

        Long-term Seattle doesn’t even view him as a catcher, having drafted another back-stop with the number three overall pick already, which means there is no place for him moving forward. none.

        DH is Arods going ahead. 1B is locked up by Tex.

        He traded him at the highest point his value could have been and even did it with a small sample size to boot.

        In return he got two high end arms.

        It’s just shitty luck and nothing more that injuries developed.

        Keeping Montero would have helped in the short-term but would have added nothing to this team moving forward beyond 2012/2013.

        So keep crying about “BS” all you want, you whine about how Cashman’s moves hurt the franchise and then you think a whole five minutes into the future about Montero.

        Hypocrisy is thy name.

  5. i hope several teams tie for the wildcards, and they have to play a round robin

  6. I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently, but was scared to tell any Yankee fans! Haha, but now that you’ve said it, I agree – this team needs major changes, and needs to get younger. If it means missing the playoffs for one year, to come back stronger, younger, and better next season, I’m definitely all for it.

    But as we know, the Steinbrenner family isn’t about bringing youth up and giving them chances. Our thoughts on missing the playoffs may backfire, and Hal could do the opposite of what we want and bring in pricy, overrated free agents (Grienke, Hamilton), who don’t fit the bill in NY.

    The Yankees in my opinion need to stop spending, and do need to instill some trust in their youth. The charade of getting by with an average team age of over 32 is getting old, and, I’m not saying I hope this happens, but this could be the final month of Yankee baseball and Joe Girardi as manager.

    For the strangest reason, I don’t feel that’s the worst thing in the world. I almost feel like I’m betraying the Yankees, lol.

    • Hey guys, how’s it going?

      Good article Fish. I think you address something that many people have been thinking about in the back of their heads. I certainly have been. I think change is obviously necessary, but I do think Brian makes a very strong point. You don’t really know for sure that the “change” that Hal would make would necessarily take the team in the right direction. You have that possibility that he goes out and pursues over-priced free agents to please the masses instead of moving toward a more youthful team (the latter is the ideal route). On the other hand, maybe they let Cashman go, and promote Oppenheimer to GM which I think is a fairly enticing option. Lots to consider, just have to wait and see.

      • Hey Mike hope all is well.

        Oppenheimer would be a nice fit. Arizona wanted to interview him in 2010 i believe but the Yankees said no to it.

      • Great to hear from you Mike!

      • Welcome back Mike D…
        You are right in not knowing which way Hal/Hank would jump but, I believe they will go as they have said before…cut the payroll and no more A-Rod/CC contracts.
        This is something Cashman has been trying to do for years…he was against the A-Rod and Jeter contracts. He has let it be known by all, everyone, whomever; no more big long contracts.
        If Hal tells Cashman (as he has) to get the contract set for 2014, Cashman will do it…in fact he has begun already.
        As for Oppenheimer taking over as the GM, I hope not…remember, for every action there is a reaction. Who would replace Oppy? People that do his job are far and few between.
        Mike you are right, as you said; “Lots to consider, just have to wait and see.”

  7. doug…you mean Buck Showalter?
    Remember how well the team was set up in 1995-96? Buck was a big part of that along with Stick. The same as when he went to the Diamondbacks, now again with the Os. I don’t think their should be any doubt of him.
    Nice comment doug.

  8. I already have the mentality that the Yankees won’t make the play-offs just so if it does come true, I won’t be disappointed like I was last year. It might not be a bad thing. We’ll get everyone (Mo, Gardy, Texieria, Jeter, Pettitte, etc.) back healthy and we’ll continue from there.

  9. Delia – your line we’ll get Mo, Jeter,and Andy back and continue from there….

    Did anyone in the 90′s think that we’d still be relying on the core 15 years later?

    Does it say a lot for those 3 players and /or does it say something bad about CashMan?

    • I think it could be a little of both. While we still rely and adore Jeter, Mo and Andy, Cashman hasn’t done any deep digging to find suitable bats for the long run. Mo, Jeter and Andy aren’t going to play forever and Cashman should find someone or we could very well end up like… *shudders*…the Red Sox.

  10. It’s like Tropic Thunder. Cashman has a good brain and Joe makes me happy.

    I agree with you 100 percent.

  11. Ha ha …good line Ed….you’da man!

  12. i hope this B’more/Tampa game goes into 20+ innings with Tampa winning

  13. Many great comments and well thought out, I agree with most of the statements. I differ on a very few things only because I believe most of us may have the wrong opinion of what is going on with signings etc.!

    All of the rest is just speculation, adding up things said and done sense 2008-9

    As we all know, Cashman had a hand (small hand) in building the 1996 Yankees and became GM back then. Granted he is no Stick or Buck Showalter by any stretch but, he has others to judge talent, Oppenheimer is one of the better known!
    In 2008, Cashman notified all the other teams and fans the Yankees were not going to make trades as they usually had any more. The Yanks always give up much more than we got in return. He also said they were going to get younger and not give those long contracts any more. Some of those actions were because he wanted youth and some was a directive from the Front Office (Dumb and dumber). Then the new CBA came into play…They want to bring the payroll under control by 2014, it makes little to no since to pay other teams to beat you and they even get better draft picks and pay them with Yankee money.

    One scenario could be…;
    Everyone is available if the price is right…everyone, from A-Rod to the batboys after this year ends.This would help explain some of the players on this team this year.
    We have guys just about as good (but higher promise) then many players on this team as of right now. The whole infield can be replaced with players we already have in AAA, AA and Nunez as SS. The same for the OF. Would they be as good as what we have now maybe, and then again maybe not…more like the later, I should think!
    Trade for some very young players that could help beef up this team next year and for years to come.
    12 to 16 players on the 40 man could be let go and replaced.
    Trading players like Swisher, Granderson, Itchy, Martin, Cisco, Stewart, Garcia and anyone else a team may want.

    Is everything above going to happen or, should it even be thought of…? I don’t know but, I do know the team would be more exciting and could even be a bit better scoring runs. In fact they would have to depend on “Billy Ball” to win a lot of the games.

    I would rather believe a scenario such as I put forth, than to find out our management team leaders were incompetent as some have concluded.
    This whole comment can be picket apart and changed for anyone that has a different opinion of some or all of the comment.
    I had been kicking this twisted stuff around for a long time.

    Feel free to write how crazy it is or what ever…heck, it is crazy but, it is raining out and I am cooped up in the house, so blame it on the weather…it may have twisted my head somewhat. Well, I’m heading to the basement and listen to Coltrane, Philly Joe Jones, Dave Brubeck, Ela and Frank on some old 78s.
    In case you are to young, 78s are records that go on turntables and…forget it, ask your Grandfather/Mother!

  14. just 1 thought. Alot of complaining for a team the is in 1st place.They have had alot of injurys. Still in 1st place. Lets wait & see what happens before getting rid of everybody. Just a thought.

    • angel you are right, that is why I wrote about doing a lot of changes, at the end of the year! Mainly changes with the older players.
      I am old fashion and like to have great defence up the middle…which means youth! With youth one can do a lot of running, in fact it will be a must just to make runs

  15. Its true the Yankees are a very old team and added to that have absolutely no payroll flexibility..the only tradable assets is granderson who I believe should be moved this off season for young major league talent (J. Upton etc). They need to start looking to move A-Rod an really push some minor league talent such as Romine, Banelous, Williams etc. In reality the only thing that will happen is Granderson will get traded…for a pitcher who isnt that great…I believe they need to move Jeter off short (i love the captain and in no way taking a shot at him) but it gets a you get guys such as Nunez in the mix for majority of the year and also puts A-Rod to full time DH which Jeter taking 3rd. Hopefully the Yankees get smarter from the top down and find ways to over come the handicaps they have created for the organization. I mean a first year gm in Boston was creative enough to do that why can’t Cashman figure it out?


    Arod and Jeter have played well,……. maybe andru jones is finished,….. but he still could wreck a game in the post season,.. you know what i mean?

    let us get this seasons world series in,…… and see in the off season
    talk about buying trouble

    jeter is not moving to 3rd base,… arod can play 3rd base,….. Jeter can DH 30 games and play another 120 at shortstop next season,….

    nunez can DH, and fill in at short,…

  17. What about Jeter in Left, A-Rod as the Fully time DH. Here is how the Yankees need to approach 2013.

    C – AJ Pierzinski

    1B – Teixeira

    2b- Cano

    SS – Nunez

    3B – Headley

    LF – Jeter

    CF – BJ Upton

    RF – Swisher

    I love the Captain but reality is, he needs to be in Left Field. Sign AJ, Trade for Chase Headley, (With new ownership, I believe it is possible to send the Grandyman to SD in a package for Chase Headley and possibly a young reliever.

    Joba Chamberlain has been ruined by the Joba Rules. I believe he had the potential to be another Roger Clemens and maybe they need to put him into the rotation. I still think he could be a good starting pitcher under the right leadership.

    • i dont like these changes,.. even though we all have been guilty on here bashing the yankees players,….. basically for RISP,… but i simply say – hits– ,….. WE CA STILL WIN THE WORLD SERIES THIS SEASON

      the big hitting teams like the angels and tigers miught not make the playoffs,……

      we have to deal with the rangers again,….. we wont lost to baltimore, oakland, rays,,…

      if the rangers take care of the whitesox,.. we only have the rangers left to beat

      that series is all about pitching

      pettite, cc, hughes, kuroda,…. ….. joba, the pen,…..

      we also have lonmg relivers for the post season, that need to be ready in case a game gets out early, and we need to hold the rangers down a few middle innings

      arod can still play 3rd base,…. jeter 120 games at short and 30 at dh,.. gives bunez 42 games at short,.. and plenty at dh,…

      lets just hold off before we make a ton of wholesale changes

    • I think jeter has to much pride for left field…I could see him buying into 3B . This team has been horrible with RISP and A-Rod is still good at third..but for his health I think majority time at DH is good (120 games) They def need to dump Granderson for a younger outfielder..the padres arn’t a good fit because if their stadium and lack of spending money. we def do not need a pitcher back..our rotation is CC, Hughes,Kuroda,Nova, and Pinieda (who will bounce back) they need to def drop Russell Martin and push Romine as well as other minor leaguers to take on bigger rolls sooner. The Yankees need to dump their baby rules and push players..imagine if jeter came up under Cashman? He wouldn’t be a starter until he was 30

      • i am now at a stage, with 19 games left—- to just let this season rid,…. as delia said the other day,.. why get ahead of ourselves here.

        the world series is still up for grabs this season, and the yankees have as good a chance as anyone

        18 of the 30 teams are still alive to make the playoffs,….. anyone within 5 games of the 2nd wildcard c an still make the playoffs this season

        we saw a few years ago the rockies go on an amazing run, winning like 22 of theor last 23 games, something crazy like that

        the yankees are in first place, only 4 games behind texas for the best record in the AL,.. and should win their final 10 games of the season, a clean sweep maybe,….

        the yankees can start a run tonight by lighting up david price

        even if they had to play the whitresox in the first round,.. they will have home field advantage,…

        lets just wait and see

        breaking up a world series winner is unprecidented maybe,….even though the marlins did it twice,.. and other franchises,….

        • You def let this season ride and hope for the best, you’re right there is a chance this team can go on a run especially as ppl start getting healthy..that said as a Yankee fan I am deeply worried about the immediate future of this team and they do need to make some changes..to kind of change topics anyone think jeter has a shot at MVP? I know trout is ridiculous but Jeter’s kept us afloat the whole second half and if the yanks make the playoffs could it push him to win? Trout an Cabrera right now both would be out of October

          • Hey Matt. I don’t think he will get MVP. I think Trout will get it.

            What do you want to see changed for next year with this team?

          • Trout should win the MVP, as a QUALIFYING ROOKIE,.. and therefore, rookie of the year,…….. lol,… Jeter is not a legit MVP candidate as a NUMBER 1,….. but in the big picture in the long term,… for history,…. I’ll take a top 5 finish.

            If Jeter wins the BATTING TITLE, leading the AL in hits, plate appearances, at bats, at the same time,….. with top 10 appearances on lists like times on base,runs scored,, total bases, which he is tittering in and out of the top 10,… and has hit 350 since julyt 1st,…… THEN HE GETS IN THE TOP 3 FOR MVP


            i they they might vote before the post season starts

            of course the yankees are making the playoffs, that is expected

            when do they start to announce the seasons award winners? after the first playtoff round, or do they wait til after the world series,.. i never keep track of the time frame

  18. What a waste of air.

  19. What is needed and you can see from this year is some youth on this team. Old Vets that can’t play multi positions is a waste IMO.

  20. Matt s. – which player won MVP?


    Player one 7 66 .324 .418 .439 .857

    Player two 28 97 .317 .452 .647 1.099

  21. Who do younthink deserved it?

    • who has 7 homers and in contention for the MVP?

      LOL,. heck, jeter has 15 homers , 30 doubles,…. and reached base in all but 11 starts,…. and started every game but 3

      ( 2 days off, one late inning defensive replacement appearance)

  22. Matthew S. – player one or player two …whichndeserved MVP?

  23. Jim – don’t be rude….let matthew s answer the question…..or you may…..who deserved the MVP that year?

  24. Amazingly no……. But not so amazing if you know the reason why….

  25. the montero trade if it was up to me i would do it again… is really easy to criticize a trade after the fact no one said that montero was nt any good you got to give pineda a chance to pitch

  26. Player ,2 was Ted Williams. Considered the best hitter in baseball. 1950

  27. Phil Rizzuto player one won the MVP in 1950 over Teddy W.


  28. Matthew – is Fish around he might know why……Rizzuto won …..even though his stats were no where near Ted W.

    • I don’t know why. Maybe because the Yanks finished 1st and Boston 3rd? I do see that Teddy W only played in 89 games so that’s why he didn’t get it . But on Rizzuto’s own team, Yogi & Joe D had better years. Was it a Lifetime Achievement Award?

      Twasp, what is even crazier is Rizzuto finished 2nd in the MVP in 1949 with this line:

      .275 BA – 5 HRs – 65 RBI – 18 SBs – 110 R – .352 OBP/ .358 SLG & .711 OPS

      That’s not a misprint a .711 OPS! He did lead the league with 25 Sacrifices, lol.

    LOL,.. come on man

    roy campanilla won 3 mvps he only played 10 seasons, he is in the HOF

    HR/RBI/AVG, IN HIS 3 MVP SEASONS 1951, 53, 55


    Gil Hodges those 3 exact seasons was


    that is close,…..Roy as a 3 time MVP had no problem gettingin the HOF even though he only played 10 seasons

    GIL is really close in the veterans comittee voting

    I think he needs 12 of 15 votes tro get in,, last vote he might have had what 9 or 10

    at one time, Gil Hidghes was the Alkl time righted handed home run hitter,

    you cant , or shouldnt hold ebbits field against Gil , when his teamm mate is pulling in MVPs left and right

  30. Most of this is on Girardi in my eyes.

    Even after the injuries you have people with either good speed or good base-running instincts (not Gardy like, but adequate) in Granderson (25 SB in 2011), Jeter, Cano, Martin, Arod (hell, he has more steals than anyone on EITHER 1st place team in AL East despite being “old” and “oft-injured”), Martin, Nix, Pearce, Ichiro, Dickerson & Nunez and he STILL plays this station-to-station crap.

    Injuries forces their hand to play Ibanez & Jones way more often than ever thought required but how can someone lay it on Cashman for “not adequately replacing Gardner” when what first was supposed to be a “few weeks” turned into setback after setback? Sounds like shitty team doctors perhaps.

    Once he knew Gardner was done he got a suitable replacement in short order.

    He had Phelps ready to go from day one but Girardi chose to parade Sweaty Freddy out there game after game in April, showing once again he is a Joe Torre clone who’ll go with a vet over a young guy any chance he gets.

    People always seem to talk about Cashman trades and never talk about how he convinced Pittsburgh to take A.J. Burnett (who, regardless of what he’s done in the NL Central was never going to be what we needed in AL East) and used the saved money to pay for most/all of the deals for Kuroda, Pettitte, Chavez & Ibanez. Tell me where we are this season without those guys again lol.

    The same “every trade he makes is bad” crowd seems to forget him landing BOTH Kerry Wood & Lance Berkman in 2010 at the deadline. Wood was nothing short of phenomenal for us the rest of that year, 0.69 ERA in 26 IP & even though Berkman only hit .255 he posted a .360ish OBP and walked more than he k’d.

    He’s managed to do all of this in a transition from “The Boss” to “Hankenstein” to Hal Steinbrenner, in the biggest media market where your bowel movements are dissected every day.

    I am by no means a Cashman lover, nor apologist.

    But he provided Girardi a team that was so deep it withstood an insane amount of injuries (Mo, Gardner, Pineda for what amounts to whole year, Joba for 1/2 a year, Robertson, CC, Andy, Nova, Arod, Tex, Swisher and others all missing anywhere from a week or two to months on end) and still be in first place.

    The team has STILL managed to score the 4th most runs in league….despite having 5 of it’s 9 everyday starters from 2011 miss time due to injury.

    The starters have the 4th or 5th best ERA in league….despite the fact that CC, Andy, Nova & Pineda all spent time on the DL.

    The bullpen ERA has been good all year…despite losing Mo for the seaosn, Drob for a month plus and Joba for half the year.

    Yet we have a losing record in one-run games (18-22).

    The team is far from perfect bt considering the sheer amount of injuries it faced the GM did fine if the club isn’t in last place (see the Boston Dead Sox).

    Nope, Joe G. was given what can be described as good “everything” (hitting, starting pitching, relief pitching, depth) and has made many, many questionable moves within a bunch of tight games this season that have cost us.

    Hell, just in the last 7 days he has brought in relievers to face guys (as in he CHOSE the match-up) on four different occasions where the batter had an average of .500 or better against our pitcher. Four times.

    Dude has lost it.

    • DJ – I agree on Girardi….that guy is shot! But I also think Girardi & Cashman are a management team who think very much alike.

      Cashman has to be responsible for having a team with an average age near 33 and no capable young players to step in. This team has many flaws and if not for the unlikely performance of Jeter would likely be in 3rd place right now.

      Signing Kuroda was a great pickup by Cash and saving some money with AJ was good too. But I can’t give him much credit for AJ when HE created the problem by giving him 5 years & $82 Million in the first place.

      And there were warning signs with Pineda. He fell off the map in the 2nd half last yr, lost velocity and was dropping his arm angle causing the ball to cut. All of that info was available to a laymen like me on the interweb. Cashman should have known that and much, much more with his resources – including the fact that Pineda was grossly overweight. Campos getting hurt was bad luck, Pineda getting hurt could have been predicted since he basically reported to camp with a weak arm so he did something to it at the end of last yr.

      Does he get credit for the Wood trade? Sure I guess but that was a salary dump for a 2-month rental and he failed to sign him that winter.

      Cashman’s been with the team for a loong time and deserves credit for this team always being a contender but he’s had a $220 Million payroll most of the time so expectations are rightfully sky-high. Cash should remain in the organization as a President but give the GM role to someone else.

  31. Exactly Fish –

    Back then there were more voters/writers that believed MVP must come from the winning team …this resulted in some crazy MVPs from year to year.

    Do you know why I bring it up and how it relates to today?

  32. that is 11 seasons 1949-1959 –

    Hodges was in his career the all time right handed home run hitter,…… at one point, of all time

    Hodges was the Father of the Brooklyn Dodgers,. protected Jackie on the Road, literally

    Hodges was a fan favorite, not that it buys him votes, it never did

    a lot of hodge,s teamateS got in the HOF,……, THAT FACT, NOR EBBITS FIELD, SHOULD HAVE KEPT HIM OUT OF THE HOF

    you can see where the voters were confused, for all time numbers,… as pitching was getting better and better and better, through the 50′s and 60′s,…. compared to the players of 1890-1930

    but the veterans comittee got to recognize what GIL DID


  33. look as these consecutive seasond gil hoidges had— hr/rbi/runs


    that is 11 seasons 1949-1959 –

    Hodges was in his career the all time right handed home run hitter,…… at one point, of all time

    Hodges was the Father of the Brooklyn Dodgers,. protected Jackie on the Road, literally

    Hodges was a fan favorite, not that it buys him votes, it never did

    a lot of hodge,s teamateS got in the HOF,……, THAT FACT, NOR EBBITS FIELD, SHOULD HAVE KEPT HIM OUT OF THE HOF

    you can see where the voters were confused, for all time numbers,… as pitching was getting better and better and better, through the 50′s and 60′s,…. compared to the players of 1890-1930

    but the veterans comittee got to recognize what GIL DID


  34. This blog is way off base! Cashman is one of best GM’s around. Their minors are lacking some quality players.

    • Unless you work on a daily basis with CASHMAN, you have absolutley zero reference point to say that.

      I’m sure there are employees that think he is not doing such a good job

      but that is neither hear nor there

      the only people that know the truth and also have the authority to make the call, are the Steinbrenners.

  35. Michael – CashMan is responsible and organizationally accountable for minor league quality.

  36. Jim……I must admit ……I like your Jeter obsession much better than your Hodges obsession.

    • TWASP, you got to considfer the time period hodges played, and how big brooklyn was.

      A very large percentage of people throughout the US came out of Brooklyn, or their generations before them did.

      At one point, Brooklyn was the 4th largest city in the entire world as to population

      Every day after home games,… at ebbits field, the fans would exit throuigh the center firld gate, onto the street,… and wait for GIL and the other players to come out, and get autographs

      The Dodgers were more than happy to do it



  37. Jim – Michael is allowed to have an opinion on how well CashMan is doing…..even if he is not CashMan’s boss. Don’t you think?

    You have an opinion on Gil hodges in the HOF but you are not on the Veterans committee???


    • I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING,…. but evaluating a player on stats and what he meant to the fans,…… is perfectly acceptable in my opinion

      but analyzing a person as a big boss in a company, without working with him,…. i do not think so

      that is just my opinion

      go ahead and analze a mid level vice president in proctor and gamble,….

      you cant unless you have worked with him or her on a daily basis


    But Hodges is before my time….

  39. Fish – have you figured out why the MVP theory of “must be on winning team” is relevant today?

  40. Jim – are you saying we know as little about CashMan’s decisions/successes/failures as some nameless PM in P&g?

  41. absolutley that is what i am saying,…you heard me quite clear,… and i believe it is the truth,…the yankees are a media empire,…..

    they let you know what they want,….. of course you can make a decision if your crest whitening toothpaste is out performing granderson this year, lol

    but as far as the quality of the job cashman is doing,.. the only people that really know and also can make the call, are the owners of the yankees

  42. Jim – you have your opinions on how the president is doing….even though you don’t work everyday with him. Isn’t that the same as Michael having an opinion on The Yankees GM?

    • what the president of the US does, affects my life as an american,… twasp you are treading here on a thin line,…. because if you want to say what the yankees do affect my life, my economic situation,… i will get into that,.. but i rathewr not

      i have my my felling clear i think too much money is wasted on sports in america

      your question is devils advocate,.. and i played it perfectly to get you to say it

  43. Mission accomplished!
    Very good ideas and opinions by many fans.

    One or two things I would like to put out there for all to think about.
    My opinion on a few items is below…remember, these are my opinions not a critique of yours.

    It seems some think Jeter should move to left field or 3rd base!
    3rd base is out, A-Rod is more than adequate as a 3rd baseman and Jeter would need to learn a complete new position.
    As for the LF spot I don’t think so, his value is hitting for avg.! Putting him in the outfield would take some of his energy and affect his hitting. I still think he should play about 80-85 games at SS, sit him against tough rightys he hasn’t had any luck with and DH the rest of the time.
    As for Babying the younger guys, I concur, if they can play bring them up! The Joba rules were put into place to protect Joba from Joe T…Joe was told by Cashman to give Proctor time off and not pitch him almost every day…Joe T didn’t do what his boss told him to do. Therefore, the Joba rules.
    Cashman took over as GM in 1996 before that he was assistant GM. Jeter started at SS that year because of an injury to the regular SS (can’t think of the name) the year before.

    A lot of fine information/ideas for more comments later. was made available, by many of you. I wish to thank you all for putting up with my, rainy day time killer.
    All opinions count, even mine….well, sometimes! :)

  44. this question came up the other day in a different thread,……. and we really do not knbow what cashmans respoonsibilities are,….. some people think he is in charge of the private company,.. others think her is just in charge of signing players

    people do not know,.. because the YANKEES DONT HAVE TO TELL US


    there is ero way for us to evaluate cashman

  45. Jim – do you know what Rizzutos nickname was?

  46. Ken – the shortstops name was Tony Fernandez.

  47. Jim- you used the words devils advocate and you mentioned Proctor andnGamble……. Do you see the connection?


  48. TWASP,, WHEN IT IS ALL ADDED UP, as if it ever could be, it is over a trillion dollars a year,.. from gas money to drive the kids to their liuttle lkeague, pop warner, or soccer game, unifoirms,.. hats and jackets with sports teams logos,.. to cable tv,.. to the price of anything advertised on tv that people buy,.. whether thgey wath sports or not,. to player salaries, ticket sales,. to the gigantoc SPORTS INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE,…. TO ANY WHICH WAY YOU CAN CAN IMAGINE SPENDING MONEY BECAUSE OF SPORTS, DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY,… gas to go to a sports bar,.. the food at the sports bar and drinks,…. SPORT BETTING, LEGAL AND ILLEGAL


  49. you know what really piossed me off the other day, i think yesterday or the day before, CRAIG CARTON ON WFAN, was talking about “bookies” as if it were something “OK”,.. AS IF HE KNEW ABOUT IT,….AND HE MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT







  50. Jim – my point is you used Satan and P&G in the same comment.

    And from the link I gave you, you can read that P&G gives trillions ofndollars to Satan worship.

    Sports is not the only corrupt business , so are laundry detergents.

  51. Correct Jim……and howndo we know if the owners of this site are not gamblers…bookies….etc..?

  52. There is a rumor that one of them owns a fish breeding company…that became rich…when they started feeding the mayo to the tuna first.

  53. Rizzutos nickname was the wagon train.

  54. Doug – whats a Girly station?

  55. we dont have to know,….. this is a main stream media site, starting out for yankees fans to express their opinions,….. nothing wrong with that, in fact, it is really good think

    What i am trying to say is CRAIG CARTON of WFAN, should in no way be glamorizing bookies on the CBS ownered radio/tv show.

    WFAN is a mainstream media company, owned by cbs, a really gigantic mainstream media company

    Unless you are in VEGAS, persoannly in VEGAS,.. it is illegal to bet on sports like BASEBALL OR FOOTBALL

    My friend Mike that was murdered in July of 2011,.. was runninbg a sports betting franchise that was connecxted to the mafia, since as early as 1994

    peopl;e think it is all fun to make bets with bookies,………..

    craig carton should shut his pie hole

    and my friend miked, that was murdered,…. knew sports people,.. like he spent a day at the track with old jets wide reciever wayne chrebet, betting horse races

  56. Doug – ask the right wing conservative he knows what a Girly station is….. ;-)

  57. At least the mike francesa credit, whenever the issue comk,es up to sports betting, he always says, go to vegas and bet, or dont talk about it,… HE SAYS THE CORRECT THING.




  58. Yes Doug money is the root of all evil. …. And why CashMan gave so much of it to AJ is beyond comprehension.

  59. TWASP,, want any more detail on mike’s sports book?

  60. No thanks , you will be banned from YFU as it is not Yankee related.

  61. Forget Hodges……….

    Mat-tingly and Munson should be in the HOF!

  62. Ken – Jeter with some clutch hits lately has started a movement amongst writers to give him the MVP this year.

  63. you dont think sports betting is yankees related?

    tell that to pete rose and the bbwaa,….

    the money line

    bet a team to win, on the money line,…. bookies take baseball bets

    people in and around the nyc area tonight, are placing bets with bookies, that have to through their franchise, kick up to the mafia,……. one wins and losses, may even the bookie keeps the vig, like mike,…. on the yankees in tonights game, as we speak




  64. Jim – talking about Murder is not Yankee baseball related…..unless you are talking about Murderers Row.

  65. well, i disagree,………. i think that sports betting in the nyc is relevant,.. because major media house like wfan/cbs,.. makes it legitimate through hosts like craig carton

  66. You might be right Jim…… I’ll let YFU Administration decide if they want you talking about gambling, murder, Joe Girardi and tonight’s line-up. Good Luck….

  67. you could see boomer easiason turning away, and not really saying anything,….. as craig carton was talking about it

    boomer easiason would never talk about any odds on any sports, unless it is from los vegas, .. and evedn then, he is grudginingly pulled into the conversation

    craig carton was flat out talking about what bookies have to offer

    this is bad,…….

  68. i dont want to talk about it,…. but appearantly, wfan/cbs,. msg network, and national amusments,. the parent company of cbs,…. have zero problem with talkinbg about it

    so why should this website?

    you think sumner redstone is goin g to say something to the presidfent oif CBS,.. that is going to say something to wfan and msg?

    he might, or shari might

    they dont want that kind oif talk,….. i guarantee you that

  69. YFU has fine young mgt….who do not like profanity…..one of the YFU administrators owns a peanut farm where they inject welches grape jelly into each peanut before distributing. Genius.

  70. , the creator of yfu told me profanity is ok, if frustrated, i have that in email,….. but i never used profanity anyway, today,…. maybe once out of over 600 posts, since ive been on here,…

    i evebn refrain and say – heck — instead of the other word

    where did you see profanity in anything i typed?
    I have a feeling, the share holders of CBS,.. and the ultimate share holders of natuonal amnusments,… through the on going operation of the BUSINESS,. do not want their on the air talent, to legitimize ilkegal sports betting

    sop craiog carton gets a big minus for the fopa this week

    i dont belivehe did it with evil or notorious intent


  71. Never saw profanity in your comments Jim….nor mine…..sometimes in Ken ORs.

  72. Doug – so if you were the best FA pitcher at the time we would HAVE to sign you and MUST give you $16m per?

    • twasp, hind sight being 20/20 no, but many teams have taken a chance on free agents and failed. I don’t blame Cashman sometimes it’s up to the player to produce. Look at the Nats they went after Gio Gonzalez in the off season, everyone was saying he wasn’t worth 3 B prospects and he could win the Cy Young. Pitching is hard to predict.

      • Doug, I don’t know about everyone but most of the people around here thought Gio Gonzalez should have been our #1 trade target. From what was put out by the mainstream media, Oakland wanted Montero and one of Banuelos or Betances. I think everyone would rather trade Betances & Montero for Gonzalez than for Pineda. Also, Washington gave up a lot more than 3 B prospects. One of those guys is already an ace for an American League playoff team…..Oakland’s Tommy Milone.

  73. Doug – pitching performance is hard to predict because it is random ™.

  74. Delia – what’s wrong with Swisherlicious?

  75. i cant take anymore of jones and ibanez as the yankees keep falling. we need to get younger but the farm system doesnt have anything in the near future and somehow we always over rate the prospects. granderson would be good trade material and some days cano just gos thru the motions. spending big long term money on those two would be a mistake. we already have cc tex and arod being way over paid.

    • Good points Ed. Cno is by FAR our best player, but he just isn’t carrying us like he did last year. When Cano hits the Yankees win, when they don’t they lose. I know it’s not comfortable to think about spending $200m on Cano but just think how pathethic this lineup would be without him. I’m convinced Swish & Granderson have to go this Winter. And Jones and Ibanez don’t even get a second thought.

  76. Alittle premature to take a position. Lets enjoy the season. We have a whole winter to review and comment on the results. Personally, the Yankee position is no different than the Dallas Cowboys of old. Overpay a few superstars to deliever in the short term while mortgaging the future. Sounds like I have heard this one before – maybe like the current political situation in the US.

    • AG – You are absolutely right. The mentality in this country is to take what you need now and worry about the future later. The odd thing is when Cashman got full control years ago he preached the importance of building the team through the minors and not giving out the long-term deals to players in their 30s. While he’s made some moves with that mantra in mind, this team has not given 1 AT BAT to a rookie this year – the only team in MLB. They have an average age near 33 years old – a full 3 yrs older than any team in the A.L.

      There was very little talent in the upper levels to step in this yr thanks to several questionable trades. Montero, Austin Jackson, IPK, Melky, Tyler Clippard, Jose Quintana, George Kontos, Zach McAlister, Justin Maxwell, Mike Dunn, etc are all young players the Yanks have traded or released the last few years and have little to show for them besides Granderson. Not to say all of these were bad moves but it just illustrates that they did have young players coming up who could be helping now but they have elected to go with all veterans. Some have been All-Stars while others are just fringy role-players but they are the guys who would have ben the young pros the Yanks lack right now.

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